Biden won thousands of illegal votes by noncitizens

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by barepixels, Nov 25, 2020.

  1. barepixels

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    A new study estimates that presumptive President-elect Joseph R. Biden benefited from thousands of illegal votes by noncitizens, providing President Trump‘s backers with another potential argument for a fraud-tainted election.

    The study comes from the nonprofit research institute Just Facts, and its president, James D. Agresti, who looked at election returns from seven battleground states: Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

    He compared U.S. Census numbers on noncitizens (a total of 21.7 million) with each battleground state’s demographics and election results. He then applied previous election polling of noncitizens.

    The 2008-13 surveys show that a significant number of noncitizens register to vote and cast ballots, despite a federal law against it, and overwhelmingly vote for Democrats.

    Based in New Jersey, Just Facts concluded that thousands of “extra” noncitizen votes went to Mr. Biden, enough to flip Arizona (plus 51,081) and Georgia (plus 54,950), but not sufficient to flip the election.

    “This is just one kind of fraud,” Mr. Agresti told The Washington Times. “It’s a sizable number, which is the point. It also decimates the predominant narrative that there is no evidence of large-scale fraud in U.S. elections.”

    Mr. Trump is contesting the election in court on two major contentions: invalid mailed ballots because of fake signatures or other flaws, and a computer voting system that, his legal team says, switched Trump votes to Biden votes. The latter claim remains unproven.

    At this point there does not appear to be a formal Trump argument on noncitizen voting.

    Democrats and the liberal media are beleaguering Mr. Trump for not conceding. He believes he would win the election if only legal votes are counted and fraudulent ones are thrown out.

    Trump set up a blue-ribbon commission to delve into voter registration lists to produce a definitive finding. But Democrat-run states balked at turning over data and the commission went away.

    Conservatives say former President Barack Obama gave the green light to fraud right before the 2016 election when he was asked if undocumented immigrants would be deported if they voted.

    “Not true,” Mr. Obama answered at the time. “And the reason is, first of all, when you vote, you are a citizen yourself. And there is not a situation where the voting rolls somehow are transferred over and people start investigating, et cetera.”

    Poll evidence from 2008 to 2013 seems to confirm that substantial numbers of noncitizens vote. For example, a 2012 Harvard/YouGov survey found that 14% of self-identified noncitizens responded that they were registered to vote and 9% said they “definitely” voted. Of those, 80% said they voted for Mr. Obama.

    All the follow-up data, such as checks of actual rosters, indicate that 2.8 million to 7.9 million noncitizens were registered to vote in 2008, Just Facts says.

    In previous elections, ground zero on the noncitizen debate had resided at Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia, and political science professor Jesse Richman.

    Based on the same census data and polling as Just Facts, Mr. Richman published what appear to be the first comprehensive studies that show significant numbers of noncitizens voting. He estimated that 2016 Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton garnered thousands of noncitizens votes. His numbers prompted Mr. Trump to make unsubstantiated claims about the popular vote he had lost.

    Other political science professors reacted by bullying Mr. Richman in an open letter calling for colleagues to blacklist his studies.

    “The scholarly political science community has generally rejected the findings in the Richman et al. study and we believe it should not be cited or used in any debate over fraudulent voting,” the letter said.

    The Harvard/YouGov survey, known officially as the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, contains too small a sample of noncitizens to draw conclusions, the blacklisters said.

    Mr. Richman has defended his landmark work.

    “I agree with the authors of the letter that the upper end of this interval may have played an unfortunate role in the president’s rhetoric,” Mr. Richman wrote in a blog. “I have, as noted above, attempted to push back against this. I will continue to do so as I think it is important that people not get fooled by an extreme upper end estimate that is almost certainly way way way too high.”

    He added: “We show that even if their response error argument is correct, there is still significant evidence of non-citizen participation in the U.S. electoral system.”

    Last year, Texas officials found 95,000 noncitizens illegally registered to vote. The state compared drivers licenses, which contain immigration status, to voter rolls.

    source: ‘One kind of fraud’: Biden won thousands of illegal votes by noncitizens, study shows
     
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  2. barepixels

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    Joe Biden Tells Voters “I Don’t Need You To Get Me Elected”

    The funny thing about confidence, it makes you let your guard down and you slip out the truth.



    Joe Biden brags about having “the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization” in history



    Not very smart Joe
     
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  3. Creek

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    Let us not forget votes from the grave...

    george2.jpg
     
  4. DDuvan1

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    Nobody cares. It’s over. Stop crying little lady.
     
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  5. hookemdano

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    75 million people care
     
  6. CraigSmith

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    The clip about voter fraud from Biden is a clip edited from a much longer clip where he is discussing efforts to protect against voter fraud as well as any other things. The context preceding and following that comment on vote fraud organization is edited out along with other stuff.

    The full video clip is here (and Im not a Biden/Harris fan)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6u1uKznCYw

    The Texas attempting 2019 to identify non-citizen voters was a total cluster. One of the things many people repeat the original numbers, but don't mention it covered elections from 1996 on. Not just recently. Of the more than 90K non citizens legally living in the US thought to be registered it was thought that 58K had voted at least one time since 1996. Well it was absolutely true that many on the list did vote - after they became naturalized citizens. More that 200k people in Texas became naturalized citizens in FY2017, 2018, and 2019 (inclusive) One of the problems with the Texas effort was using DPS data for drivers licenses which identify whether the person was a citizen an the time the drivers license was issued. Upon becoming a naturalized citizen, the license does not need to be replaced until it expires so the DPS database is not current. Since that cluster last year, Texas has initiated other voter validation programs but has not turned up anywhere near those totals.



    Texas settles lawsuit over bungled search for illegal votes

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...376fb0-2994-11e9-b011-d8500644dc98_story.html

    "Someone did not do their due diligence": How an attempt to review Texas' voter rolls turned into a debacle

    Texas secretary of state apologized for inaccurate claim of 95,000 non-citizen voters that Trump tweeted as evidence of voter fraud

    The article on JustFacts about the study is deficient in that it does a poor job of providing citations for the information used (they are only general) nor does it describe other than in a generic sense the methodology or methodologies used to conduct the study. I don't see anything that references an actual study to examine, just a description. I provides some things to think about though.

    Our states and federal government have a patchwork of various database that are used to track voter registration and elegibility information and they are not all interconnected or consistent. There needs to be a more cohesive and unified methods that doesn't somehow turn into big brother tracking.
     
    #6 CraigSmith, Nov 26, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  7. plako

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    No, hits is far from over and you know it as well, just crying that old song in desperation that this scam won't pass after all.
     
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  8. barepixels

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    hes-right-you-know.jpg
     
  9. plako

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    My friend professional in networks and security suggested perhaps a good idea. Issue to each legal votter in the USA a ledger, like a special type of voting currency that would enable the voter to track his/her vote counting while maintaining full anonymity. This can be processed by open-source SW with full access to anyone tracking the vote. Every legal voter that don't nave a cell phone may go to any public library for free internet access with exact instructions how to vote.
    What do you think?
     
  10. barepixels

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    It depends on who is running the server. Codes can be cheated by updating with a version that always give results "your vote counted" then revert to the non-hacked version when near inspection/audit time.

    I prefer

    Voter ID
    Very stiff penalty
    Reward system for reporting confirmed voter fraud
     
    #10 barepixels, Nov 26, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  11. CraigSmith

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    There are ways to prevent changes to code or applications from being made with a very low probability of not being detected. We usually refer to these a Asset Configuration Compliance and Management tools or something similar. One of the systems I work with will detect unauthorized changes very quickly and revert to the authorized version or shut down, even if the hack is an insider job. Tt would.take multiple persons with direct access to the system (not remote) to bypass.

    Penalties are already stiff. Felony for fraudulent voting.

    I am in favor of better Voter ID solutions.

    Maybe an implanted chip or tattoo barcode (I'm not serious)

    Other than bureaucratic and political will, I'm not sure why voter id solutions cannot be instituted though Drivers License and State ID as has often been proposed. Some people (usually DEMs) often complain that such proposals will disenfranchise the poor or people disconnected from modern technology. While I do believe there is some legitimacy to such arguments, I also believe (without and statistics to back up my belief) that these issues only apply to a small percentage of the nations population. This could potentially be resolved by legislation that requires and funding state/county organizations to reach out and provide assistance to people to get the ID, even If it means transporting them to the DMV or equivalent. Voter ID legislation (usually proposed by Repubs) rarely proposes funding for such programs. So if someone registers to vote, then there should be a funded mechanism to help them get the required identification if they are eligible. Then if someone chooses not to take that assistance, they have disenfranchised themselves.
     
    #11 CraigSmith, Nov 26, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  12. barepixels

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    on page 16 of the legal filing (https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mied.350905/gov.uscourts.mied.350905.1.15.pdf)
    they discuss foreign actors having access to US elections.

    foriegn1.png Here is a list of Countries/Groups Involved in US Election 2020 Access/Manipulation

    foriegn2.png

    https://twitter.com/dmills3710/status/1332018988314976256

    The document notes that the Dominion’s Trump-hater Eric Coomer is the inventor of the application

    dominion-china.jpg

    How about we don't outsource or buy important types of equipment such as ballot counter.
     
    #12 barepixels, Nov 26, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
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  13. CraigSmith

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    Well, that's a pretty fair, and seemingly obvious point (those last thee words are not some sort dig). And Ideal. Applies to a lot more than just voting systems too as we have plenty of critical infrastructure that uses foreign made products.

    In practice it's difficult in a globalized economy. Even things that are made in USA usually have foreign made components. or due to mergers, buyouts, acquisitions etc. companies or divisions of companies change hands. Even many, or most IT security devices manufactured in the US are dependent on foreign made components. And there have been public examples of counterfeit devices such as Cisco Catalyst switches. It can be really annoying to design and test a critical IT system with all or mostly US made components, get ready for production and installation, and find the some company X that makes product Z was purchased by some foreign company, based somewhere else and the updated firmware or software is being written in yet a different country. Then we need to find a replacement component or find a suitable way to mitigate the risk to an acceptable level. Then the customer and the contracts people freak out and the legal folks have to get involved as they sort out who has to pay for the changes. I have experienced this multiple times - fortunately for me my only part was supporting technical and risk analysis.


    Smartmatic only provided election services to Los Angeles County for 2020. Scytl did not provide official vote tallying systems in 2020 in the US- primarily training and other services. Scytl does provide more extensive voting services, including cloud services, to other regions of the world including the EU. The images of network maps created by public scans are potentially flawed, because, as, I described in another post, IP Geolocation is not consistency reliable. The fact foreign actors are probing public websites of voting products companies doesn't mean they have been able to compromise their products, at least through that avenue. If the companies have set their systems up competently then their development infrastructure will be isolated from any public facing website. Now, if they are not competently set up... well that's a problem. A much more common method of penetrating a companies development environment is through phishing emails with links that that a less than attentive employee clicks on, which then allows malware to be downloaded if other sufficient defensive mechanisms are not in place. to fooling people into providing their credentials if their system is still username/password based instead of use PKI and/of MFA. My current employer disables all links in email and additional characters are added to the link address so even if you cut and paste into a browser they go nowhere unless you edit the link path. Other companies do the same, but I have not idea what the percentage of business actually do this, or whether the voting products companies do.

    Here is a website that is very interesting, and among other things has a database that you can download that lists the voting equipment and model used in every county in country.

    Verifier

    I would be best as you suggest that all the equipment was USA produced. Preferably by multiple competing companies I think too as that would eliminate single source of compromise.
     
    #13 CraigSmith, Nov 26, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
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