California's 15 dollar wage

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Meezer_Man, Mar 30, 2016.

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  1. crawdadguy

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    the last time they raised the wage
    both of my teenagers got letters saying their hours would be cut
    and they worked at different locations
     
  2. Twistedorder

    Twistedorder Well-Known Member

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    I'm not one to internet debate, but your entire argument can be dismantled with the following concept.

    Lets take a restaurant for example, who is your primary customer-base? Minimum to Low Wage employees. (since I ran a restaurant in my earlier days I can speak to that with absolute fact)

    Lets say you typically run a 30% margin on labor vs sales. If all of your employees pay is increased by 50%, what that means to you is a new labor percentage of 45% right? Right. Even though the employees pay was increased by 50% individually. So, you have to actualize a 15% increase in total cost and labor, not 50%. The same people who visit your restaurant by the vast majority now have an additional 50% of their income which can now be considered disposable if all else is equal. (That phrase is key, because this argument doesn't work if you don't take all else being equal into thought.) If those customers now have 50% more disposable income you can assume that your profits will also increase because the total amount of sales will increase strictly based on the fact that people who use your place of business for a necessity like food can now afford to eat there more often. If they are able to eat there even 20% more often, and your sales volume and profit increases by 20% you actualize a 5% net profit from a wage increase after calculating the net cost of labor by an additional 15%.

    In summary, a 50% employee wage increase brought you to a 45% labor margin, but the increased sales from said wage increase brought you to a 25% margin. Thus making you money, not costing it.

    Thats my rant for the day.
     
    #162 Twistedorder, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  3. Medicated fisherman

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    You are assuming the employees disposable income is not subject to increase in rent,gasoline,groceries,insurance, no more gov suplements. Now your 50% raise is gone on cost of living. The restaurant owner is not going to absorb the increase he will simply increase his prices. Using your math why not increase min wage to 1000 an hour then we can all be wealthy. Wow you really need to own a business to understand a 50% increase in labor is a 50% increase in labor no one is claiming a 50% increase in cost of operation. learn the difference then try to argue.
     
    #163 Medicated fisherman, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  4. Twistedorder

    Twistedorder Well-Known Member

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    I can tell you, with absolute certainty, the restaurant doesn't increase its prices. Fun fact; Los Angeles has had a living wage of well over $13 an hour for years. Why would the employees rent increase, I placed a very specific set of words that says "all else being equal" and proceeded to obliterate your logic. It's okay to lose, and you are definitely swinging beyond your mental weight class with some of your responses. You're talking to someone who manages 130 people on 5 continents.
     
  5. Medicated fisherman

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    Your logic is not in line with human greed. Yes we are greedy and as a business owner I can tell you we increase our prices with any excuse possible. If you don't believe me look at oil. The price goes up when someone sneezes on an oil rig. You can argue the cause is because of a capitalistic flaw but all including Venezuela use the same practices. It is a fact people want to have more money. Isn't that the reason the min wage employees want more? I let you get away without even arguing your over inflated profit margins for a restaurant. As a business owner I don't care about your management position.
     
    #165 Medicated fisherman, May 29, 2016
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
  6. Twistedorder

    Twistedorder Well-Known Member

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    You raise your prices, someone lowers theirs. Guess who gets the business? Welcome to capitalism.
     
  7. Medicated fisherman

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    You are absolutely correct that is how it is supposed to work but lower your price while increasing cost of operation and you are on the fast track to bankruptcy.
     
  8. Big Daddy TR21

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    Mikecheck1212, So right now minimum wage is 10.50 an hour. With the cost of $15.00 an hr. will bring a increase to all business. So now the baggier at the store or cashier at the fast food restaurant or server at the same restaurant will cost all of us more. Business is not going to eat the cost of increased labor, they will do one of two things. Lay offs or decrease hours and still raise the cost of doing business to all of us.

    As many have said, that $8.00 combo meal is now gonna cost $10.00 or $12.00, cost of food at the store will increase. Gas for you car will go up. Your favorite tackle store will increase everything to offset cost. This going to touch every part of your life and no one will win.

    Then that $15.00 is not going to be worth it!!

    Once the increase hit all goods and services, people will do with less because they won't have as much money to do it with. Middle class gets screwed again cause I'm not getting any raise like that. In fact, our Company has left California, thank god I work from home or I would be unemployed like many others are.

    I just need to hang on five more years, then I can look to see if I can stay or if I have to leave
    .
     
  9. Big Daddy TR21

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    Mike, you know how you make these employers pay you more? Quit the crappy job and get a better job! If your job skill is flipping burgers or any other minimum wage job and you do nothing to make it better for yourself, why should I help you? Who helps me when cash is running short? I can tell ya, no one. Is the Government gonna step in and pay my mortgage or my SDG&E bill?
    Hell no they are not, I'm either gonna have to take a second job to get by with or sell everything.

    What kill me is when I go to a fast food place and I see these guys driving $30K and $40K cars and truck all decked out with rims and tires and stereos, yet they are complaining about not making enough to live on?? Seems to me if they made better choices they could afford to live.

    I worked a Jack in the Box as my first job. I made $2.28 an hr. No way in hell in 1978 could you live on that anywhere, but as a 16 year old kid it help pay for cloths and shoes to go to school. It was NEVER intended to be a living wage.

    Should be the same way today. Entry level jobs should never be living wage jobs, if that is what you need you need to make a career change. That's how you get ahead.
     
  10. Big Daddy TR21

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    RXwoman, not sure if you are still in the work force or retired, but I can say that in the past 6 years many have not gotten raises, yet the cost of living has increased by 27% here. My wife is a State employee, they have not had a raise in 6 years. They did get one this year, but between the cost of insurance increasing and the increase cost of living we are even at best. In the last 8 years we make less now than we did then. Nothing is getting cheaper, it's only increasing. This false wage increase is only going to bring up the cost of everything and possibly cost many there jobs they have now! Government can't fix that if they do. More and more GOOD paying jobs are leaving the country, I don't want to be a $15.00 and hr employee and neither should anyone else living here. And if you want to be honest $15.00 an hour is not a living wage job in San Diego. Average 2 bedroom apartment is $1600.00 a month to rent food and utilities say another grand. So just that alone is $2600 if you have nothing else. $15.00x40 = $600x4 =$2400. Your $200 on the wrong side if your single with a kid! that doesn't include heath care insurance, or a car payment, or child care. But my question to you is, where does it stop? Today it's $15.00, 2020 it's $20 and so on and so on. You got to stop it somewhere and you have to keep the Government out of it!
     
  11. mikecheck1212

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    Sure..bad choices..but as I've said a few times in this post if the businesses don't pay them then we do through welfare programs..I'm not cool with that personally..businesses that can't afford to pay should have a different plan..it is a myth that prices of combos would go up that much..it is also a myth that companies that pay well can't afford it..look at a place like in n out..I think they're doing well and they pay their employees well..but personally I don't think it's so cut and dry..I do think there is small companies that couldn't afford that..I think there should be breaks for them..if they're gonna raise minimum wage they should base it off a companies profits vs employees or something like that..I agree people should quit if they don't like where they're at..but they should also be able to negotiate..but most of the people against minimum wage raises are also against unions..personally I would never work at McDonald's..they couldn't pay me enough..but if that was theonly job available to me I'd do it..then use welfare and food stamps to supplement that..so instead of Ronald McDonald paying me..you would through taxes..
     
  12. Medicated fisherman

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    In and out pays $9.25 average to a cashier nationally. That is hardly 15.00. It is not the National corporation that will suffer. They will just close there locations in high min wage states and cities. Once again hurting the lower to middle class because they patronize these locations. They can't afford the $10.00 farm to table hipster burger when having to feed a family with a low income job. To try and blame the employer giving the uneducated,unmotivated,or young a job for there own self inflicted poverty is unbelievable. No one is forcing anyone to work min wage. If someone feels they are worth more then they should apply for a job that pays more. I know it might require manual labor, actual hard work and some experience. Min wage jobs are the experience nessesary to move ahead. If the people working these jobs pay attention and learn from them they will move on to better jobs. I know of a popular chef that requires his chefs to punch in after 3 hours of free work and to stay and work after for free. If you complain you are replaced by one of many in line for the opportunity to learn from this guy and the prestige that goes along with it. No one plans on retiring from that job it is just a starting point. To try and use welfare as blackmail for higher min wage is rediculous because regardless of how high we make it they will still be at the bottom. They will always be at a competitive disadvantage for the resources. They will always need welfare as the cost of goods will rise out of there reach again. They will only be able to afford the same lifestyle they always have had. All you do is cause inflation. You claim we all pay there welfare tab but you do realize that the top 10% pays 90% of the tax burden. So yea the businesses owners are paying most of the welfare tab anyhow.
     
    #172 Medicated fisherman, Jul 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2016
  13. TXMatt

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    Or, those on welfare, doing absolutely nothing, would be forced to take one of those positions.
     
  14. CrazyDonkey

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    All I want to know is that if someone is going from the current $10 per hour to $15 per hour, when is my hourly wage of $X going to jump $5? It's only fair...or are we not trying to do the fair thing here? Oh cool, we're just going to devalue my skilled labor.
     
  15. old_rookie

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    One thing that hasn't been mentioned about the potential laying off employees at service related business is the quality of service. If the employer needs to raise the hourly pay and layoff employees, those that remain now need to carry the extra work - in theory. That will cause a decrease in customer service. The customer will need to wait longer and possibly get poor results. Employees will be stretched thin and make mistakes. Turnover will increase due to burn out and stress. I see this already in some stores where an employee is trying to mutli-task and not really giving his/her complete attention to one task.
     
  16. Rocketship

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    Don't worry about all these details! Just give everybody who hasn't earned it more money!!! There will be no ripple effect! Things we do now have zero effect on things in the future or on any other aspect of anyone's lives but our own. That won't make prices on everything go higher! Ha, what a joke to worry about that kind of thing!

    All this worrying about anything other than putting more money in minimally skilled laborers' pockets is a waste of time. Don't worry about people who have earned their way to making more money, they don't really deserve anything more than the uninspired populace who've chosen to not better their lives for whatever reason. Come on! Just let everybody be equal regardless of effort. That seems like the nice thing to do.

    While you're at it, lets go ahead and disarm the law abiding public to make it easier for the criminals. After all, they've had hard lives too so we should reward them by becoming sitting ducks since we actually follow laws.

    Don't worry about who is going to pay for all this or how. We'll just keep printing up more to say we have it or whine and complain until we do with no actual plan to make it so! Yay!!! Life is so easy and everything is fair because we are all entitled to it regardless of what we have or have not put into it. Hooray for fair, easy, ambiguous, uninspired, goal free, fat pay check life!
     
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