Can someone confirm this rumor?

Discussion in 'Freshwater' started by Nute, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. Big Daddy TR21

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    Always head out to the Colorado River...
     
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  2. sherpa

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    is there any talk about closing the lake (EC) to fishing after the ramp is not usable
     
  3. RKMM

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    JUST the ramp. Nothing but the ramp.
     
  4. doubletap

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    Wow should be awesome for the tubers and kayakers
    without all the big boats flying around
    man fishing ec during the summer without the skiiers
    and the tournaments
    may have to switch from sutherland to ec
    both beautiful mudholes but
    ec will have more and bigger fish
    when one door closes another opens
     
  5. swings are free

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    Yes but what about the friggin jetskis?
     
  6. slillywhite

    slillywhite Well-Known Member

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    at least Shasta and Oroville are over 100% historical average for this time of year. At least somewhere in the state has water.
     
  7. bzinsd

    bzinsd Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately our resy's are for storage not recreation bottom line. Something we all have to deal with living in SD. It's just an added bonus, sucks but it's true. They also want everyone to get all crazy about SV opening so when they do open it they can charge whatever they want and have no problem with people paying top dollar. It's all carefully planned in my eyes. Ya it hurts tackle shops, boat retailers all the way down the line, but the city has not a care in the world about us. Kellen said it perfectly, the politicians don't want to ruffle the feathers of voters by slapping them with higher water rates. Same reason DV is still closed, sure they could buy water from the state and fill that sucker up quickly but no dice there. Just sad but we will all deal somehow. Hit the river, go on more road trips. Whatever we can do to keep our lines wet. Just hit EC hard in the next couple weeks, heard it's only 3 weeks away from close. True or not might as well get it while its good and smoke em. Good luck to all and get out there!
     
  8. bassgalrascal

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    Launching hasn't been possible for at least three years at Sutherland, but it has still been open for fishing each season.
     
  9. StinkyPinky

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    I keep hearing this nonsense, yet every time I go to the lake to do a little byproduct fishing, they have there hand out for me to pay them money. I swear, I leave ALL the water I use there at the lake when I'm done.
    Correct me if I'm wrong (it's happened twice before), but isn't this how the majority of our water has been brought in over the years? What's the difference now? Someone found a zebra mussel in their lake so that's no option anymore? Cost of living increases are inevitable raise the damn water rates already if that's what it takes
     
  10. Loco Jigs

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    Does anyone know if El Cap or SV receive runoff (melting snow) from the Rocky's (Colorado River), Sierra's or Tahoe mountain's? Rain can't be the only way our lakes fill up........or is it? It's Rained more this year than last year (speculation)....so we should have more water in our lakes than 2015 right?

    Can some one take the time to draw out the pipe line to see what lakes are connected to what pipe? LOL
     
  11. RKMM

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    http://www.sdcwa.org/san-diego-county-water-sources

    is a rough outline.

    No reservoirs here receive runoff (melt), directly (as in flowing over the ground). Reservoirs NOT connected to the system to have water pumped in are Sutherland, El Capitan (although in a pinch water can be reversed and sent there from SV - if we have water we own in SV to transfer and it makes sense to do it) and Barrett.

    Even though it rained more, it was compressed into fewer days. When that happens the ground pretty much absorbs any runoff. El Capitan's creek never really 'ran' for any significance after the rainfalls as compared to in the past when it would drizzle for days on end.

    And some more interesting maps:
    http://www.sdcwa.org/reservoirs-map
    https://www.sandiego.gov/sites/default/files/legacy/water/operations/environment/pdf/05wsvol1.pdf
    http://www.nature.org/media/california/california_drinking-water-sources-2012.pdf
     
  12. fish4bass

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    Thanks Lori your always willing to put in the extra mile for everyone. Its really appreciated.
    Is there a minimum water level for El Cap before they actually would transfer from SV.
    And also is there a minimum for Barrett before the city would shut down the fishing program until the water level came back to a preferred level..
     
  13. Kellen

    Kellen Owner
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    There really is nothing different than before. I'm not sure how long you've been fishing in San Diego, but this really is nothing out of the ordinary. We're in the middle of a terrible drought, the lakes are low as a result.

    They never buy water just to keep the lakes high for fishing.

    We had a thread on here before about El Cap, @Linebig shared an aerial photo from an airplane of it being really low (http://sdfish.com/forums/t/low-water-photo-el-cap.151941/), lower than it is now, and I recalled back in 2003 when the lake was basically a mud puddle, the whole north end was pretty much written off by anglers as a dead zone based on how shallow, muddy, and stale it was back there. It was about 18-19 vertical feet lower then than it is right now. And before that, it was similarly low in 1997. And before that as well.

    So yes, we've been here before. We'll be here again. It's the nature of reservoirs in the desert.

    The only difference right now is that the SDCWA has Olivenhain and the bigger San Vicente. So they can keep a suitable supply of water in total, without it being spread out as much in other lakes. That's why the city is bragging about all the water they have right now, while most of the lakes are so low. Their water inventory actually is in a pretty good spot. It's just not all where we would want it to be if fishermen were calling the shots.
     
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  14. Kellen

    Kellen Owner
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    I wouldn't be nearly as concerned about El Cap as I am about Barrett, Sutherland and Morena. What's been done to those 3 lakes is criminal. The fact they drew those lakes down so far before stopping is completely ludicrous.
     
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  15. Linebig

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    I agree.... Yes, we have enough water. Still, there is no reason why they drained those lakes. Terrible to see it.
     
  16. StinkyPinky

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    I'm 34 and have lived in east county my entire life. I fished el cap from the bank or from a tube until my friends and I could drive. While in high school I got too "busy" to fish, and stopped fishing for over ten years. Up until that point, that lake had never even sniffed the water level it's at right now. I have pictures from my teens that show the water so far back into chocolate arm that you couldn't walk to the other side of you wanted to. So I guess the fact the water levels fluctuated over a roughly ten year span while I wasn't fishing means it was always like this? This never happened in my lifetime until I was well into my twenties. And they've had "drought" talk since I was a kid. It comes around when it's convenient. Like anthrax talk or SARS
     
  17. StinkyPinky

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    And to your point, when has morena ever been this low? And did San Diego just have an epiphany in the past two years that helped them realize morena was shallow and evaporated a lot? This is what I'm talking about. These lakes have been the same for how long? The lake didn't magically become a shallow lake a few years ago. Some person or people decided it was to someone's benefit in the recent past. Along with a lot of other water decisions
     
  18. Kellen

    Kellen Owner
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    Sorry, I think you misunderstood. I didn't say they're always like this, I mean that they are always fluctuating. The water levels are cyclical. During extreme drought years, they're really low. When we get a lot of rain, they can be high for awhile. Just a few years ago El Capitan was full. In the last 15 years we've seen almost all of these lakes spill over, and also be so low the launch ramps aren't in service. Just is what it is. My only point is that El Cap's current situation is not unprecedented. We've seen it before numerous times, and we'll see it again.

    The city basically ran out of water a few years ago, Interim Mayor Todd Gloria and the Council decided that instead of purchase water from outside sources, which would mean an increase in water rates, that they'd lower Morena to an essentially unprecedented level.

    Gloria is on record saying, "I’m acting for ratepayers. We cannot afford not to draw down this water that the city of San Diego owns."

    He was strongly opposed by County Supervisor Dianne Jacobs, and they knew very well what situation it would put Lake Morena in. But they did it anyways.

    It really is that simple.

    Morena, Sutherland, and Barrett can't get water from other sources. So now, the only way they're getting water is if it falls from the sky and runs into the lakes. There hasn't been any significant rain falling from the sky.

    Demand for water is just getting more and more as well. San Diego County human population just keeps growing, but there isn't any more water falling from the sky now than there was.

    Lake Morena has never been an efficient water tank, it had water simply because "we" didn't need it at the time. The lakes that are on the outskirts; Morena, Sutherland, and Barrett were built to capture rain. El Capitan and San Vicente do the same, along the SD River. Then those lakes shuttle that water to Miramar, Murray, and Lower Otay which are adjacent to the treatment plants that then send it out to your faucet.

    It's just the way it works. The water trickles down the pipeline so to speak. The lakes at the end of the pipeline are the ones that are most steady, while the ones at the end are the ones that capture water and pass it along.

    Again, this is all how the system was designed, and why these reservoirs exist.

    The only thing I contest is just how low they were willing to draw Morena, Barrett, and Sutherland before they stopped taking water this last cycle. And I do think the officials were banking on a wet winter from El Niño, as we all were.
     
  19. Kellen

    Kellen Owner
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    I am also going to be REALLY interested to see how the addition of Olivenhain, the increased capacity of San Vicente, and the new desalination plant will affect how long the lakes remain high after we do finally get some reservoir-filling rain. All three of those changes have been made since our last period of real rain.

    Previously, it seems like it's about 2-3 years of reasonably high water before the demands of water consumption start to really take a toll on the reservoirs. It also seems to be our drought periods last 5-7 years in San Diego...

    So, will those 3 additions, which have added a lot more water capacity to the SDCWA supply be able to extend our water supply closer to bridge the gap between wet years? In other words, will the periods of low water go from 5 years down to 1-2, or even none at all?
     
  20. StinkyPinky

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    No, I understood. You said exactly what I thought you said. It's cyclical. Yet, IMO if this has happened to el cap before, in my 34 years in this earth, it only happened once and it was within the last ten years. It was never near this low when I fished as a youth/teen. Not even close. Those pics I have from my early teens were at the boat dock, and the water is less than 20ft below the road. You could launch from the lower ramp's exit.

    Population has grown, so has the cost of living. "They" just decided rate/tax hikes in other areas were of higher priority. This could have easily been done slowly over the years.

    As I said, they've talked this draught stuff since I was young, it's never stopped. And it has never ever gotten to the point they imposed fines or schedules as to when water can be used. I work in rancho Santa Fe a lot, in communities like the Crosby's, Cielo, and rancho Santa Fe farms. It sure is nice and green all over that once barren landscape. They must be really enforcing the water cut backs. NOT!!! Ha I haven't said that in a long long time!

    My point is, I won't be convinced that all this is necessary. It is what it is, yes. Doesn't mean people pulling the strings aren't pieces of garbage in my eyes
     
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