For the sake of discussion ....

Discussion in 'Lure Making & Customizing' started by spoonminnow, Aug 26, 2017.

  1. spoonminnow

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    First, I times even I indulge in superstition. If a superstition is found to be based on fact, it is reliable; based on falsehood(s), and it is rarely or never reliable. I may use certain lures based on reasons that have no basis, yet those lures may always be depended on to catch fish - any fish, anytime!


    For the sake of discussion, let me indulge in the possible reasons fish strike lures and live prey, for as we know from many experiences, anything is possible when it involves fish striking lures or feeding. One way to describe how and why fish attack is to consider what an artificial fish - a robofish if you will - would require to detect, track, analyze and attack any object it deemed objectionable to it's peaceful state of inactivity (not of mind in that fish don't possess them).

    On you tube I was completely fooled by a lure that was a perfect copy of a bluegill twitching and dying in it's last throes. A bass kept attacking it but didn't consume it. The lure had the exact shape and coloration of a gill, but most important, the built in action that kept that bass incensed. In order for a robofish to exactly simulate a predator fish, it would have to have the following attributes:

    Extreme sensitivity to object motion, either as a whole and of parts of the object that exhibit specific actions no matter how subtle. Subtlety in nature is a fact and predators must be able to detect it on average to target an animal that protects itself by being less conspicuous. Prey animals rarely dart around crazily or thump hard objects to call attention to themselves. Man has made motion detectors as sensitive as the lateral line which is capable of inputting to a fish's simple brain, object speed, size and action. A fish's eyes do the rest.

    Visual acuity must be such that object contrast details add to the total picture. Humans may see an exact duplicate of a juicy steak and if hungry, salivate, but fish don't need imitation to generate impulses that make it react.

    What consists of object contrast elements? Contrast against any background to start: against the surface, to the side or to the bottom. Color contrasts involve: object brightness no matter how subtle; light reflection off the objects surface; hue as in the case of florescent colors or white; colors that contrast within the object (two tone, spots, stripes); and of course flash - light reflection based on light intensity.

    Even black flakes within a soft plastic lure create visual contrast regardless of hue or plastic transparency.

    Hue involves the detection of wave lengths - something any good robofish is capable of. It knows the difference between green and orange, but does the consideration of color make a difference in what fish deem important enough to provoke it? I am one of many that say it can, but my superstition is my excuse.

    I love a perch color patterns: green, chartreuse and orange. I don't believe fish think that combo imitates a perch, but I believe the combination provocative as I do many other favorite colors such as florescent pink. The example provided shows one incredible lure design (Kut-tail Worm) dyed two different colors from the original chartreuse. One shows a solid color bright contrast; another shows basic contrast (dark against light)); and the top one shows a perch color combo.

    Kuttailcolors.jpg





    Flash is evident in nature and pertains to silver sided minnows that flash when excited. But subtle flash that may not be evident to the human eye is easily visualized by our robofish and any fish with eyes in its head. Any reflection of light off any shiny object's surface alerts fish of an initial presence no matter the hue.

    Does a lure have to be colored to be detected? Any lure regardless of shape is seen by fish because light that passes through is warped and reflected internally creating a shape that is obvious. I've caught many fish on clear plastic baits.

    A lure's shape and size are very important but not in the sense of matching anything in nature. A cube is not natural nor is a coil, but a slim shape is. Shape contributes to a lure's action, among other things and action speaks louder than most lure characteristics. Lure action consists of 1. total body action and 2. body part action.

    Total body action is affected by tail action such as that of a broad curl tail or boot shaped shad tail. Wobble is the closest description I can come up with. Tail design-imparted, body action is best exemplified by a curly tail or Slider Grub tail (below). In the case of a crankbait, it's the dive lip.A thin straight or prong tail (below) exhibits quiver - one of the best provocative actions ever molded in soft plastics.

    rcnPdB3.jpg

    Even the largest fish is affected by the smallest lure moving at the right speed, of the right shape, etc. etc. etc. This bass decided to smack this wee little paddle tail grub in 4' of water.

    IMG_0029.jpg

    Our robofish is programmed to become excited by any subtle object motion as is any fish worth it's scales.

    Finally, what is the sequence applicable to a real fish or our fake simulation?

    1.detection

    2. instant analysis of the objects size, shape, speed, motions, and contrast (color, flash).

    3. attention focused long enough for an involuntary sequence to happen:

    a. a revving up of its aggression level from an inactive state.

    b. explosive action to plainly stop the object in it's tracks.

    As we know how our knee reacts to the thump of a rubber hammer, all fish responses are initially reflexive meaning involuntary in nature. The only difference is that our knee doesn't have eyes, a lateral line or taste/odor detection that determine what it does next.
     
    #1 spoonminnow, Aug 26, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
  2. B8DHOOK

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    Great post Mr. Spoonminnow. You put a lot of thought into your analogy and I can appreciate that. For me, tying on a lure is a confidence thing. If I have confidence in the bait / lure I'm throwing then I will catch fish on it. I used to fish Lake Hodges's every spring just before they opened for the season, shhhh ( I said I used to ) anyway, I used an old worm made by Manns bait co. It was called the Mannipulator and I bought them exclusively in the 80s. They were killer at Hodges. I have bags and bags of other more expensive plastics but they just never seemed to catch fish like the black Mannipulator. Bobs Bait n Tackle sold his stores to Turners and I bought all Bobs leftover Mann worms in a bargain bin for cheap. I've since used all the bags except for one bag. I only use one of my prescious worms if the spot I'm fishing looks real fishy. It's a bad omen I need to get over and I need a new "confidence" plastic. Bottom line for me is, if I don't think it's going to catch fish, then I'm not going to fish it like I should. I have a handful of go-to lures and a crap load of "other stuff that just gets lugged around".
     
  3. Vito1023

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    Back in the 80's I used to use Mann's in black and motor oil those were my confidence colors at Hodges, my friend caught a 10lber by the dam on a Mann's 10" black from shore, it was a real hog for sure.
     
  4. spoonminnow

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    I have more to add to the post :

    I would never claim that any bait is foolproof but that some baits work most times in most conditions - ice fishing not one of them. IMO The laws of lure use must follow a certain formula to be successful:

    right time / right place + right retrieve + right lure design = strike provocation

    I have used a few lure designs that caught many fish under the ice and were as successful as spikes, though at times only spikes and the like caught fish. Once the water warms to 45 degrees or more, most lures that have worked well in the past always caught fish, and I'm talking many soft plastic designs.

    Granted, not all fish at all times are susceptible to lures or even live bait - it could be a stupor that can't be broken in that hour. But fish that are susceptible, individually or in a group, for some reason don't seem to tolerate certain lures trespassing on their turf and do everything they can to let the object know it, or in any case stop the tease. In fact, the best reason I can come up with as to why fish strike lures is the tease factor - something about a lure that irritates the senses similar to a nagging itch you and I must scratch or go crazy trying. Fish must be close to sense the cause of the itch before it can be provoked to scratching it. Some call the sensation a hunger pang; I call it sense overload that prompts aggression.

    If the fish ignored your bait (lure or live?), there are many reasons having to do with why fish bite or not - the most important being what a fish wants, the way it wants it and where as well as when.

    What a fish wants is a poor expression suggesting a preference based on a fish comparing one lure to others or some live prey animal. What instead pertains to lure-related factors most likely to generate strikes. When and where are the first factors necessary to discover and along with the best presentation (the way it wants it), increases one's chances of catching more fish via a pattern that is repeated in other areas.

    Much of fishing is based on chance (and for some, just plain dumb luck), but taking into consideration the above, ups one's chances and stacks the deck in our favor vs. those who fish blindly, casting to places less likely to hold fish, using baits less likely to provoke strikes no matter the number of casts.

    As you digest the above, please at least believe one thing - lure design matters and because of it, not all lures of similar design are equal.
     
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  5. B8DHOOK

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    Very cool Vito... we probably crossed paths once or twice. I used to fish the shore between Hernandez Hideaway and the dam every spring. Fish the banks near I-15 quite a bit as well. Very good, fun times. I have an 11.6 lb. wall mount from near the dam as well. I swore if caught another bass over 10 lb. I would mount it, so I did. Anyway, my friends used to laugh at my long wavy tail Manns worm, but I loved those things. They had great movement just sitting still in the water let alone slowly stitching them on the bottom. I don't suppose it really matters what type of worm you fish as long as you have confidence in it. Once you've caught a few fish on any given lure, the game is on and your "go-to" bait starts to grow legs...
     
  6. spoonminnow

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    They had great movement just sitting still in the water let alone slowly stitching them on the bottom. I don't suppose it really matters what type of worm you fish as long as you have confidence in it. Once you've caught a few fish on any given lure, the game is on and your "go-to" bait starts to grow legs...

    Very well put !!
    That's exactly what I was getting at. Once a lure produces on different days, in different waters, with different presentations and in most months of the year, it's a KEEPER! The proof is in what you said about a lure laying motionless, especially on bottom, and then feeling the hit.

    A few weeks ago I was in 5', had some smacks on a grub all the way back to the boat. I noticed fish on the sonar display straight down and decided to let the lure lie on bottom, Dang! if the fish didn't hit it. Once I hoped it an inch a few times, the fish took it and hooked itself. Not only was the fish (and many more like it) riled up, but the lure design proved itself to PO the fish to distraction!

    Other soft plastic lure designs I've used in the past would not have evoked that response lying on bottom and are limited to one presentation. Great designs can be worked at any speed, on or off bottom - (the slowest being the most important) - and force fish to react.

    Granted, shallow water fish are more easily provoked especially around stump, rock walls, isolated weed patches, etc.but the true test is in deeper water once groups of fish are seen on the screen. Soon I will be working lures in 8' where I have seen fish relating to nothing and work lures after throwing out markers. If certain designs work as well in deep as well as shallow water, mid depth to bottom, I'll know the extent of a lure design versatility.

    Sure it's great catching fish on a few confidence lures, but my fishing obsession/challenge includes discovering what fish bite and where, no matter how novel, and recording it. The more the better!
     
    #6 spoonminnow, Aug 29, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
  7. B8DHOOK

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    Very good Spoonminnow. you definitely have a scientifical way of breaking things down. I look forward to hearing what you come up with on your next outings. ( he can't say scientifical !? )
     
  8. spoonminnow

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    I wasn't able to find schools in deeper water yesterday but did discover more facts of lure use:
    1. sunfish are crazy !!! This and two others slammed this Big Wag Worm rigged on a light jighead.
    c8n6EEk.jpg

    ...and another:
    1yBGX7d.jpg

    I haven't used Riverside's Big Wag Worm in over a decade, but decided after I caught fish on a Gary Yamamoto Worm rigged on a 1/16 oz ball head jig, I was on to something. Tequila Sunrise is a color I never thought bluegill would bite, being one of my best worm colors for bass. Catching speaks louder than ideas lacking in foundation and this was one of them.

    This little guy swallowed a 2 3/4" paddle tail worm, the paddle of which is slightly sticking out.
    QMzlWQs.jpg

    This T-rigged plastic caught bass midday under a bright sun in water no deeper than 5' and in sparse weeds.
    XximpSN.jpg

    Another sunnie couldn't allow this Kut Tail to escape:
    oWaGdZO.jpg

    The day was beautiful but finding groups of fish a bit more difficult "
    X1lJrqS.jpg

    But one poster on another forum got my goat posting this:

    I never use a jig larger than 1/64, and have been known to go down to 1/200 when fishing highly conditioned, pressured bluegills. Two words that do not belong in a sentence describing how to catch fish: never, and always

    Frank, I like your passion but I believe some of your "revolutionary" ideas are actually setting Bluegill fishing BACK, rather than advancing it.


    To each his own beliefs when it comes to fishing. Again, the proof is in the catching, not the BS.

     
    #8 spoonminnow, Aug 31, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
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