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Not your daddy's air gun

Discussion in 'Hunting & firearms' started by Fomen, Jun 6, 2017.

  1. Fomen

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    This is the first time I've ever posted on this forum. But I wanted to share this story. I recently purchased an air rifle. Now I know what you guys are thinking...... HA HA!!! Get a real gun. Well, before you resort to snap judgements, let me educate you.

    There are 4 types of pellet rifles on the market today.
    1. Pump action (like the old Daisy 880). Multiple pumps compress air into a cylinder not to exceed 10 pumps.These average 250-400fps of .177 pellets.
    2. Break barrel rifles. The consist of a rifle where the barrel is drawn down towards the stock. The action is 2 fold. It allows a pellet to be inserted into the receiver, and it compresses the air cylinder with air for the shot. These claim they can get up to 1200fps, but that's only with alloy pellets of .177 cal.
    3. Nitro Piston Break Barrels. Same as the aforementioned, but the gas inside the piston is nitrogen. Are they better or more accurate than the regular break barrels? Maybe, but barely.

    Now the 4th category, and the quintessence of air rifles. The PCP air rifle. This stands for Precharged Pneumatic. These air rifles have rifled barrels with a 16:1 twist. They are powered by a compressed air cylinder, some of which can reach 250 bar (3650 psi). There are even big bore versions so the range of projectile you can use are .177, .20, .22, .25, .257, .357, .45, and .50 cal. I own an AirFirce Condor SS in .25 cal. Using JSB 34gr pellets, I can get consistent shots of 970-1000fps. And the accuracy....... Holy cow! Dime sized groups at 50 yards.

    Some of the PCP air rifles cost $3000. And some of them have been modified to be accurate out to distances of 200+ yards. There are videos of guys taking down deer and hogs with these air rifles.

    Best part of all- they are UNREGULATED! And since they are unregulated, and they aren't considered a firearm, they can utilize suppressors (silencers) legally.



    Threading the needle.jpg
     
    #1 Fomen, Jun 6, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
  2. Leoffensive

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    I'm a firearms guy. Nothing wrong with air rifles I like them for their quietness
     
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  3. tony91723

    tony91723 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry bud, there's nothing like shooting an m1a rifle..ands it's good for a 1000 yards with a scope. But hey, if you like shooting dove with your high powered pellet gun have it.
     
  4. Ram-Rod

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    Pcp are regulated, you can only use it in shooting zones, no suppressors in CA, and no full auto.
     
  5. Fomen

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    Gonna have to disagree with you about the suppressors on the air rifles. You can't suppress a firearm (i.e. a rimfire or centerfire cartridge). Since Air Rifles aren't considered firearms, the suppression rule doesn't apply. That's why when you order a PCP air rifle online, many of them come with shrouded and suppressed barrels. If they were illegal to suppress here, the suppliers would have a disclaimer stating that they can't be shipped to California, or they would manufacture an unsuppressed model that would be legal in California.

    I ordered a generator online once. There were 2 models to choose from when I ordered from the manufacturer. They had the "standard" model that could be shipped to all of the lower 48 states EXCEPT (or course) California. Then they had the "carb compliant" model designed for usage in California. The carb compliant model could be used in all states if that's the model that you chose. But at the same time, it's the ONLY model that could be used in California. The manufacturer won't even send you the non carb compliant model if you live in California because they could get SHAFTED. Same with shrouds on the airgun. They ship it to you because the suppression rules apply to firearms. They just don't call it a "silencer". It's a "shroud" or a "baffle". It doesn't eliminate the noise. It just quiets is down substantially. It's basically a game of verbal chess.
     
  6. Fomen

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    Well, you can't shoot your M1A in your back yard. You can't shoot your .22 rimfire in your back yard. You CAN shoot this. That was my point in this thread. I'm not comparing an air rifle to a center fire assault rifle. There's no comparison. My goal was to educate people on how far the world of air gunning has come. In other states ranchers contract air gunners to practice pest control on their farms and ranches. They prefer high powered air guns for several reasons.

    #1- The power output can be controlled to minimize any potential collateral damage if there is a miss, or the pellet travels through the animal.
    #2- The airgun is so quiet that often times the shooter is able to get off multiple shots before the targeted species gets "spooked", and head for cover.
    #3- The airgun is so quiet that it doesn't spook the livestock

    200tt1g.jpg
     
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  7. weldon

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    Most airguns don't break 1200 fps which is the threshhold of the sonic crack that firearms make.Most quality guns nowdays feature a built in barrel suppressor that brings the noise level down to a soft "pop." My Benjamin PCP Nitro 2 .22 cal gets about 880 fps with 14 grain pellets and is a real rat/bunny popper out to about 40 yds. And yea the SDSO has a zone area for air rifles check on the net.
     
  8. Ram-Rod

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    Fomen
    1) The shrouded barrels or built in silencers are legal in CA but doesn't work well compared to a real clip on/ screw on silencers which are illegal in CA.
    2) I live in mira mesa so I can't shoot it in my yard because of shooting zones.
    3) Full auto pellet rifles are also illegal in CA.


    http://www.pyramydair.com/article/Airgun_silencers_What_s_the_big_deal_August_2006

    The following 36 states that permit the private ownership of silencers: AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KY, LA, ME, MD, MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WV, WI and WY.

    I was planning to get a pcp rifle awhile back but went with airsoft instead because its legal in my yard. 500fps 20rps. Nothing like shooting a flying bird out of the air.
     
  9. Fomen

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    My Air Gun has a power wheel on the side of it. This controls the length of time (thus the air pressure) that air is released from the tank through the top hat. My gun could EASILY break the sonic barrier. It's adjustable to compensate for hunting environments as well as pellet weight. Not all pellets are created equal. JSB's tend to be the best. But dialing in a modern PCP air rifle is a complex procedure. You need to adjust the power wheel and chrono the changes in 10-12 shot groups. The air in the tank needs to "settle" before consistency can be achieved. On 34gr JSB, the most accurate range for the pellet is 975 fps. But I could easily push the pellets beyond that. That would be at a setting of 10 on my power wheel, of which goes to 13. But in doing that, I would be wasting air, and thus doing more harm than good. It would negatively impact my accuracy, because the best way to sight in the gun is to to utilize a consistent fps range.

    Then you get into the world of Helium. If you use helium in the air tank instead of compressed air or nitrogen- LOOK OUT! You will add at least 500-600fps. Lots of guys use helium in their big bore air rifles when hunting deer or other mid to larger sized game. At this point you are FAR exceeding the sonic threshold. Watch some video's online. You will be very impressed.

    Most PCP airguns have a .001" choke on the last inch of the barrel. Pellets with skirts love a choked barrel. Since the lead pellet is soft, the minuscule choke smooths and straightens out the skirt improving stability. Bullets HATE a choke. So what some of these air gunners do is they have their barrels taken into a gunsmith to get the choke removed and the end of the barrel re-crowned. Then they switch over to lead castings instead of pellets. The physics and aerodynamics of the lead cast bullets provide much more consistency in grouping and accuracy, and in turn provide a much longer range.
     
  10. Fomen

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    There is a difference between a silencer and a suppressor. The very name of each defines it's purpose. The silencer is designed to make the gun silent. The suppressor is designed to baffle or suppress the discharge to a lower level. Now you and I can look at those two "definitions" and snicker to ourselves and say, "They're the same thing." And you would be correct in saying this. There's a loophole in every law, and someone always figures out a way to exploit it. Laws are singular in communication. They say what they say, and they don't have the ability to explain themselves further beyond what's already said. That's why the statement "The pen is mightier than the sword" exists. It's a game of verbal chess.

    Several years back the "Climate-gate" scandal came out. For years and years Al Gore and his team pushed this agenda that humanity was destroying the Earths atmosphere at an exponential rate, and he backed up his claims with scientific evidence from reputable climatologists. They called it GLOBAL WARMING! Then the crap hit the fan for Mr Gore when some of the emails from his leading scientists were intercepted. In these emails they admitted to purposefully, intentionally, and methodically EMBELLISHING (lying) the numbers to create panic among society to push their agenda. Fear is a powerful motivator.

    So what did they do? The backed off for a while, regrouped, and crept back onto the scene with a new term. "Climate Change". Sounds less offensive than Global Warming. But it's the same exact thing, just renamed. By now a new generation has come onto the scene that doesn't remember the term Global warming, and certainly doesn't remember the whole "Climate Gate" scandal. They are none the wiser. Or even if they are old enough to remember, they don't even recognize that the two terms are one in the same. It's a classic game of verbal chess.

    So they don't "silence" the gun (which would imply noiselessness). They "suppress" the noise to a level that quiets the discharge giving the advantage to the hunter.
     
  11. SurfingFishOside

    SurfingFishOside Well-Known Member

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    Did you eat the bird?
     
  12. Fomen

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    For the sake of compliance with hunting laws and shooting regulations within the municipality wherein that photo was taken- I can neither confirm nor deny that the person who dispatched that bird was me. The picture was posted solely to demonstrate the accuracy of the airgun.

    But to answer your question (and feel free to read between the lines) I eat everything that I shoot with my airgun. Dove is DELICIOUS! :emoji_grin:
     
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  13. salt water guy

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    Interesting… air rifle technology has definitely improved. I wasn’t aware of the PCP class. I have a German made, RWS model 350 (.177) that I thought was in the upper end of air rifle performance – but these PCP's take it to a whole new level. The kids and I enjoy shooting the RWS, but it is pretty loud and I imagine the neighbors aren’t too thrilled when we’re kicking it with some back yard plinkin’
     
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  14. fisheromen

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    Do you shoot gophers and rats?
     
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  15. nainoa881

    nainoa881 Active Member

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    Airguns are awesome. You can get the fundamentals of shooting accurately down cold. You can shoot in your garage. Backyard if quiet and un-observed by neighbors (don't freak out your neighbors). That way when you take your M1A out to the range you're not burning ammo relearning the intricacies of hold, trigger and breathing. PCPs are laser accurate and QUIET. I don't own one (PCP) yet, but do have a a few break barrels and co2 rifles + pistols. Note: If you can accurately group a spring powered break barrel then all other firearms become EASY. Airguns are great. I can shoot all day at my property without causing a disturbance.
    I can legally shoot firearms too where I live, but why bother the nieghbors with a constant barrage? Out of respect I keep it to Airguns unless ofcourse there's a ground squirrel out of airgun range - then the .17HMR comes out. Occasionally the AR. But seriously, Airguns are way more fun. Expensive up front cost to get a really good one + figure out what pellets it likes, but after that it becomes "your personal backyard golf game". Shoot everyday. Don't break the bank. Get really good. Never miss again with your centerfires and rimfires. Win win. I live in the sticks and have room to stretch out the range of your airgunning. PM me and maybe we can arrange a day shooting Airguns. I have never fired a PCP so it could be great!
    -Scott in Descanso
     
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  16. Larry M

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    Just saw this dove today hiding from you in isle 7 at Home Depot. LOL

    20170628_120312-1.jpg
     
  17. Fomen

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    Smart bird!

    Especially smart since it's a Eurasian Ringneck dove. Hunting them is permissible year round because of their staggering numbers.
     
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  18. Fomen

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    Could not agree with you more Scott. I'm actually getting ready to purchase an air regulator from PCP Tunes that screws inline with my HP air tank. It releases EXACTLY however many psi I set it for on each discharge. The beauty of this is the fps of the pellet get VERY consistent. And when the fps get consistent, so do the groupings. Here is a chart from the website posting the results of using JSB 34gr pellets and setting the regulator for 150 bar (2175 psi).

    The variance in a 31 shot string was only 7 psi. Believe it or not, you can get even more accurate than that however if you have a decent digital scale. You can go through the pellet tin and weigh each pellet. Figure out the ones that are closest to the 33.95 gr standard set by the manufacturer. Find the pellets that are within .05 gr in either direction and you will increase your consistency even more.

    Test%20Results_Regulator_1-500x500.jpg
     
  19. weldon

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    One item not mentioned here is that most air guns have fairly crappy triggers. I highly recommend installing a Charlie De Tuna trigger on most air guns out there. They cost about $35 and following the simple instructions are easy to install. They provide a smooth, adjustable trigger pull to almost any air gun. Since most airguns, especially PCP nitro and spring piston ones, have a different 'feel" and need a different follow through than other shooting arms when pulling the trigger a De Tuna trigger will greatly enhance your accuracy. I have installed 4 of them on various airguns and yes they do work. Check them out on the 'net.
     
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  20. geofish

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    Will that work on my Winchester Model 70 pre-64---30-06?
     
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