Pain at the Pump

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Meezer_Man, Mar 29, 2019.

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  1. Medicated fisherman

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    Great post. It is nice to here from someone with inside knowledge. I personally curse the CA politicians that impose these fees and taxes to socially engineer a population that demonizes the petroleum that brought us prosperity and lives that were unimaginable before petroleum.
     
  2. Bobber

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    That was educational. Thank you.
     
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  3. plako

    plako Well-Known Member

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    Great post! While joining the thankful crowd in cheering your efforts to educate us I'm also curious about this switching from winter to summer blend standard. I feel the summer blend is more expensive and the switching process itself creates further strain to the refineries, is this correct?
    Here, besides the politicians in Sacramento and the stupid voters that failed the gas tax repeal I would also blame the environmentalist zealots fiercely opposing any oil drilling of the CA coast. How come that the most high-tech state in the world cannot make safe off-shore oil drilling - we don't have the Gulf Coast hurricanes, do we?
    I also feel a coordinated efforts from corrupt politicians, that charlatan Musk with other EV promoters and Green (watermelon) radicals to artificially keep the gas prices high, there is a lot of money and power in this agenda.
     
    #43 plako, Apr 5, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
  4. DPevin

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    SUMMER vs. WINTER GASOLINE

    Sorry, I don't have a complete answer for you on the summer vs. winter blend issue. I am on the oil production side of the house, so I am not too familiar with what, if any, the difference is between the two blends and the process.

    However, I do know the difference between the two. So, our gasoline in california is blended with Ethanol. But when they say summer/winter blend. It doesn't mean that it is blended with anything different/extra. What it means is they change how easily the gasoline evaporates for different times of the year.

    Winter blend evaporates easier. It needs to be able to evaporate easier in the winter so that whatever engine it is used in runs well during the colder months of the year. If it didn't evaporate easier at the colder temperatures your car would have a hard time starting and once it did it would run really rough, and probably get terrible gas mileage as a result.

    Summer blend is the opposite. It is harder to evaporate so that with the higher temperatures during the warmer months its not evaporating at a faster rate. You will see a difference in older cars and it will help them not get vapor lock. Which is when you get gas mixed in with the flow of liquid, which when you are trying to provide a stream of fuel to your engine can be problematic. Also, kind of ironically, gas mileage tends to be slightly better in the summer your gas is evaporating at a slower rate.

    I don't know enough to say if they way they alter the process for summer vs winter causes the fuel to be more expensive. However, I do know that the changeover requires a significant amount of work at the refineries which results in down time. And in addition to that, they take the opportunity with the refineries already down for an extended period of time to perform a bunch of maintenance that requires a shutdown. This is probably what is happening right now, like someone above mentioned how there are a few refineries shut down right now, and that coincided with price increases at the pump. It is also important to note, that these shutdowns end up costing 10s, if not 100s of millions of dollars. To get an idea, we have a small gas plant that we own and operate, so that we can take the natural gas from our wells and do what needs to be done to it so we can sell it and pipeline it to the city gas department. It is then used in homes and whatnot. We just shut ours down for repairs and maintenance for a little over a week to the tune of 4 million. And our little gas plant is less than the size of a basketball court.

    On top of normal costs of a shutdown. Every time you have a shutdown, regulatory agencies come out of the woodwork and there are tons of fees involved and permitting. Not to mention normal operating conditions can result in things happening out of your control that result in fines hah. All of which can extend the downtime. I would imagine, all that has a lot to do with gas being more expensive in the summer. Not necessarily the blend itself, but everything involved to make it happen.

    The only other thing I can think of as to why our gasoline would be more expensive in the summer is simply due to corn harvests. Ethanol comes from corn right? So corn harvests are essentially over in Nov/Dec every year here in the U.S. I would imagine, come summer, corn supplies are beginning to fall off so costs of corn and all its products would rise due to supply and demand. I don't know this for a fact, but it would make sense? So if ethanol is low perhaps we even have to import? I dunno....could just so lots of reasons why it might play a roll in higher prices that time of year.

    OFFSHORE DRILLING

    If you really have questions and want to get into it more, we can.

    But there should be no delusions. There is still offshore drilling happening on existing offshore fields, there has always been. The opposition by the state is to new offshore fields, or put another way, drilling new reserves. Which are untapped formations that have not been explored yet.

    As someone who recreates in, on or around the ocean on nearly a daily basis, and also on land. But also works in the oil industry. I feel we should be able to explore that offshore stuff, and even onshore. However, I feel we have to be careful and responsible. We can't just go developing everything all at once. And especially offshore we have even more of a responsibility. The technology is vastly improving. Safety and automation/monitoring are getting crazy and highly technical. But the bottom line is, exploratory wells are no joke. Each well, even in the same formation, has a mind of its own and its own personality. They each are unique and behave differently. It is near impossible to predict exactly what you will encounter and when. The danger doesn't just lie with exploratory fields. You can have an existing 90-100 year old oil field that is all but depleted of pressure, and in the process of continuing to develop that field you can drill into an area that might even be really close to existing wells, but you end up in the perfect spot right in a pocket made by some faults or whatever and you can hit a bunch of pressure and take a kick or have a blowout.

    Bottom line is, it's complicated. And I share environmentalists concerns for offshore drilling, I just don't share their reasons for concern. More often than not they are HIGHLY misinformed. At the same time, I feel it is important to continue to develop existing fields and explore new ones in a responsible manner.
     
  5. DPevin

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    Couple links for folks who are interested.

    DOGGR website: California's regulatory agency for Oil, Gas and Geothermal Resources

    https://www.conservation.ca.gov/dog

    DOGGR Maps - you can search around california and see all the wells. You have to zoom in quite a bit to get the sympols to show. You can click on the wells and get information about them. Most you can see the drilling and history of the well. Production information. Lots of info.

    https://maps.conservation.ca.gov/doggr/wellfinder/#openModal/-118.94276/37.10257/6
     
  6. gct9

    gct9 Well-Known Member

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    Arizona is around 2.87 a gallon, Utah is a little less and Colorado is about the same with some places around 2.40 per gallon, new mexico is about the same price as Colorado
     
  7. Larry M

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    Thanks. The Another Montana Trip thread I posted some prices along the way.
     
    #47 Larry M, Apr 5, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  8. gct9

    gct9 Well-Known Member

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    no problem
     
  9. Deputy Dusty

    Deputy Dusty Well-Known Member

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    I live in esco but usually get gas at barnacles in vista they were 3.59 oh but wait I used my card and it was 3.69... Costco it is...just hate waiting in line there with all the other bozos
     
  10. Meezer_Man

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    I will be buying gas tomorrow or midnight at the ARCO on El Norte when off work. The gas costs more in Vista =^..^=
     
  11. Deputy Dusty

    Deputy Dusty Well-Known Member

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    Yea but then that arco charges you to use your card there...I live close to that arco they usually are the cheapest around
     
  12. Meezer_Man

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    Yep 35 cents using ATM card, Not many gas stations open at midnight. =^..^=
     
  13. Larry M

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    Here's an article on gas prices here, up 25 cents. I thought that it was low at the current price. The article was a national story. California watch out.

    20190409_081409-1.jpg

    20190409_082033-1.jpg
     
  14. old_rookie

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    Heard on the news local prices should be hitting $4 - but not sure by when, probably Memorial day.
     
  15. 858NOVICE

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  16. Neuroshima

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  17. DPevin

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    hahahaha best post of the thread.

    On a serious note. Since my folks moved to Idaho I have been on zillow quite a bit. Shoulda moved when they moved. Houses were 50-75K cheaper than they are now.
     
  18. old_rookie

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  19. Meezer_Man

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  20. fisheromen

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    That sign says "buy somewhere else"!
     
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