Please Mr. Trump

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by mcfish, Feb 2, 2017.

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  1. scisports

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    Thanks for your replies, your responses strengthen my argument. Last time I checked the Bible contained both old and new testaments. Matthew 5:17 says
    Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or
    the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.



    But ok sure, here are some verses from Matthew that can be interpreted to sponsor violence as well. I do not adhere to such interpretations because I understand historical context. But others that have not been raised in a Judeo Christian society may interpret differently. I think it is the same for Islam, plain and simple. Religion doesn't cause terror, radicalization does.

    Bottom line: anything can be misconstrued in an attempt to justify violence or bad behavior.
    1. Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12


    2. Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17


    3. Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30


    4. Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19


    5. "The children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12


    6. Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21



    7. Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen 19:24). 10:14-15


    8. Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21


    9. Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36


    10. Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24


    11. Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50


    12. Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex 21:15, Lev 20:9, Dt 21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7


    13. "Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." 15:13


    14. Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9

     
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  2. EncinitasWomp

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    I haven't seen anyone advocate taking verses or surahs out of context. In fact I said multiple times to read the books in their entirety. In a backwards way you are proving your argument by using verses that contain "violence" to show the bible contains violence, but taking them out of context. So in a sense you are doing what you tell us not to do.
     
    #122 EncinitasWomp, Feb 10, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2017
  3. Medicated fisherman

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    Let me explain this so even a bigot could understand it. You obviously have never read the bible but Google some vs to suit your argument. If you had read the Bible old and new testament, you would understand it is forbidden for us to judge someone for there sins, it is up to God. It is a sin to carry out punishment in the name of God. The Bible is all about free will and making the right choices. Unlike Muslims that belive it's there duty to force you to follow there religious tenets. If you don't get that you are to blinded by your prejudice to even have a discussion with.
     
  4. Medicated fisherman

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    Those are not the Muslims we are refering to. Did you travel to Yemen, Iran,Iraq,Syria,Sudan, Somalia recently. Only 7 countries have been banned and that was because they have no system for us to check there background. They also areas that ISIS or other extreamists groups openly operate.
     
  5. old_rookie

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    I have to side with scisports - I see this as an example of why it is not a good idea for me to go and read the Quran and take it literal as to how all Muslims behave without any other research. Think of the reverse. If a Muslim wants to learn about Christians and they read that part, I could see them telling their friends something like "dude... you know in America, the women need to go away from the men for 7 days during their ...you know.. time...whoa."
     
  6. Medicated fisherman

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    The difference is America is not a religious theocracy. In countries that have a majority Christian populations tend to be more open and free. In Islamic countries the religion dictates the laws. It's not illegal to be gay in America, we don't force women to cover themselves, women don't need a male witness to report a rape. I get what SCISPORT was doing but look at the actions between the two. There are Muslim countries that are more liberal but they are still strict compared to the freedom we have in America.
     
  7. fisheromen

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    Really not a bad idea!
     
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  8. SageBug

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    When I was a kid, we had both bibles and read from them both.
    My Grandfather was a southern Baptist.. Real southern.. Speaking in tongues and passing out southern. I came home scared the first time I went with them.

    There have been many atrocities done in the name of God. I really never understood why today's Christians act like the Old testament is "just a book" now. It's the base of the religion.

    Christianity seems to be ever evolving.. My cousin is a Pastor at one of those new, "hip", rock'n'roll ish Churches and I can't grasp it one bit. Certainly not the Church I was used to as a kid. He really thinks you can sin all week and be forgiven on Sunday.. My Grandafther always taught me the bible doesn't change, the people do. He thought Churches like My cousins were full of sinners and wasting their time.

    Long story short. I believe Christianity has and could be used for evil just like Islam. if you deny that, then you look less "believable". Christianity can be really passive aggressive towards other faiths and non-believers, and can make life very difficult for them.
    (I'm ready for the neg rep points)
     
  9. EncinitasWomp

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    I know there are hundreds and hundreds of millions of Muslims that are good people and don't subscribe to the fundamental brand of Islam. I am sure it sucks for them to get lumped in with the ones that do. However there are a large number that do subscribe to fundamental Islam. 1% or 2% of 1.6 billion is a large number. Heck, half a percent of 1.6 billion is a large number. And, it's not like these 1%ers are all talk and no action.

    The thing that gets me fired up is that those arguing against the ban want to make it about other issues or turn a blind eye as opposed to acknowledging whats going on. You can't look at me with a straight face and tell me that people from a certain area of the world, that have a certain set of beliefs, haven't been creating hell and havoc across the globe.

    What's the harm in temporarily inconveniencing a very small number of people by delaying their visit to the US while we see if there is a better way to sort out the 1%ers? If white American Christians were committing mass casualty events in Tahiti and their government put travel hold on white American Christians and my trip got delayed for however long, I'd understand. And I would also do whatever was necessary to prove I am not one of those white American Christians who is going to perpetrate one of those events.
     
  10. Larry M

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    I don't know why all these quotes pop up at times when I try to reply, but l'm still learning.
    Very nice pictures and I'm glad that my posts made you think of your good times.
    I too have traveled a lot, in Europe. In 1965 and 1966 while attached to NATO (not able to organize ) in Naples Italy. I was in the Navy and would receive 30 days leave a year leave. I've been from the tip of Italy to Scotland and everywhere in between. Rome was like the distance from SD to LA so it was an easy trip by train. At that time you could go inside the Coliseum and actually go to where they kept the gladiators. We walked where they fought We would have German beer at the side walk cafes, when I came back to the states I went to a beer import store in Pacific Beach and bought the same beer but it tasted like crap. Damm FDA ruined it I think with all their rules.
    I ain't got no book learnin like ya all. But I have a lifetime of experience that you can't get from any school.
     
  11. Larry M

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    Only one post came up so I guess that I did it right. lol
     
  12. Medicated fisherman

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    Nothing like the passive aggression shown by non Christians towards them. I've been told by an atheist that he hated me because I was a Christian and Christians were intolerant. We act like the old testament is just a book is because we don't follow the Jewish law outlined in it. Most of the old testament is about Jewish law and the names in the book. We belive in what it says but it was mainly written for the Jews as Christians didn't exist. We follow the new testament because those are the teachings of Christ. Christians follow Jesus not Jewish law. We don't follow there diets or customs. We celebrate dates that have to do with Christ not the Hebrew holidays outlined in the old testament.
     
  13. Carterantebi

    Carterantebi The Skunk Magnet
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    The Bible has the OT because it foreshadows the NT and the coming of Christ. Back in the time period of Jesus, many Jews thought Jesus was a fraud or that he was just some crazy guy that popped up out of the desert. That is why the Gospels, especially the Sinoptic Gospels, are geared towards the Jews. I believe it's either Matthew or Mark that starts out with the lineage of Jesus that connects him to Abraham to show that Jesus is A, a decendent of Abraham, the Father of Man, and B, to show he must be from God, and C, to fulfill what has been foreshadowed and prophesized in the Old Testament. Like @Medicated fisherman said, Christians don't follow Jewish laws outlined in the Old Testament, they follow Jesus, who often broke those Jewish laws. He washed the feet of his followers, he touched a leper and cured him, he worked on the Sabbath, he ate pork, etc.

    Jesus did all kinds of things that broke the Law of the Torah, some to help people, and some just to screw with all the Jews that wanted him dead, and many occasions both simultaneously.
     
  14. scisports

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    Thanks, glad someone gets my point.....
     
  15. scisports

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    Who said I was a nonChristian?
     
  16. Carterantebi

    Carterantebi The Skunk Magnet
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    Beats me
     
  17. Medicated fisherman

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    No one.
    However that sounds like every atheist I have heard when attempting to put down Christians
     
  18. fisheromen

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    Misused would be better. There continue to be scammers and cheats so much so that I am, at times, ashamed to admit that I am a Christian. However, a Fundamentalist Christian; one that actually believes and practices his beliefs, (important distinction) is not a threat to society. The same cannot be said for the fundamentalist Muslim.

    Someone will, no doubt, bring up the wacko "Baptist" that disrupt the funeral services of deceased military personnel. They do not qualify under the above definition.
     
  19. salt water guy

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    I hear ya... I'm a HS dropout and the Navy turned me around. Stationed on the USS Rust Bucket out of Norfolk VA. A couple of Med cruises, Gitmo and a North Atlantic. No GI Bill at the time, but the Navy did assist with college tuition. I would encourage my own two sons to volunteer in the armed services...
     
  20. Larry M

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    This is probably not the right the place place for this post since everyone is posting about religion. I went to four different HS's in three years in three different states. In Bethel Alaska when I was there it was about three classrooms attached to the National Guard armory after completing the 11th grade we moved farther up the Kuskokwin river to Aniak AK no schools at all. Population under 300. My older brother bought some land and paid a native American to help in the building of a log cabin. I never saw it completed, when I turned 17 I asked my mom to sign papers for me to join the Navy. They had to fly in a magistrate to give me a test. I have very bad vision 20 40 with glasses at best, when the doctor at the military base in Anchorage pointed to a line to read and I said that I couldn't see the letters he didn't believe me and put down 20 20. In 1963 if you could walk and breathe that's all it took.
    In 1967 my last year in the Navy I also was at Norfolk on the USS Damato DD871. I have a picture of some kind of bottom fish caught in GITMO bay from the stern of the ship. When I find the picture again I'll post it. I also caught a tarpon in Key West on freshwater gear, the fish was released.
     
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