Police report is complete el cap boating accident.

Discussion in 'Freshwater' started by Linebig, Aug 20, 2014.

  1. Linebig

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    Oh no...this will be horrible news for the families of the two SD- fishermen who died a few weeks back at El Cap.

    I just heard on the channel 8 news right now from the police report findings being completed that the boat the kids were in was in fact moving and going the wrong direction when the other boat struck them. The police said No charges are being filed against the other boaters. Oh my.. I am so sorry for their families. Charges or no charges be filed the other two involved will have to live with that nightmare of what happened the rest of their lives.

    That is really sad to hear, it is bad enough that they had their lives taken at such a young age and even worse that it seems it was totally preventable.

    Please everyone follow the rules out there....
     
  2. Kellen

    Kellen Owner
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    I wonder if they're going to make the report available. I also wonder if they were able to find anyone who actually saw this happen, or they're just going off of what the two men in the Nitro said.
     
  3. Linebig

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    I was wondering the same thing? How did they come to this conclusion? All I could think it could be is that their boat motor was still in gear when they found it. If so that could mean the boat was under power? Still even with that when I am fishing around grass I leave my boat in gear turned off to not have grass wrap around my prop. I bet they don't let anyone in on how they figured it out.
     
  4. Linebig

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    Kellen, tell me I am wrong. Take a look at the photo of the boat and look at the throttle. Is it leaning forward?
     
  5. Kellen

    Kellen Owner
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    If you go back in the boating accident thread, after those pictures were made available, I said that their boat had to have been in gear when it was struck. The witnesses who arrived at the scene said the boat was pushed up on the bank already, and the way its positioned on the bank in the photo (granted this was a day later), looks like it was driven up there. The wind wouldn't have put it up there like that.

    So I thought all along that the boat was under power when it was struck. I also had a theory on how it could have happened without alcohol being involved.

    But it was all speculation. Still is.
     
  6. Linebig

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    Yep, I understand.
     
  7. Kellen

    Kellen Owner
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    Here was what I said about it;

    http://sdfish.com/forums/threads/boating-accident-at-el-capitan.145285/page-4#post-343379

    Also, witnesses at the lake said Mendez and Ingram were traveling from the North Point area to Conejos right before it happened.


    At this point I'm mainly curious about if anyone else actually saw this happen, how many witnesses there were, and obviously what the guy driving the Nitro saw or didn't see.

    Was this just a case of him being surprised by a course the runabout boat was taking, or was he not looking at all and never saw them?
     
  8. Kmahan

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    Hello everyone,
    Our families were informed of the SDPD preliminary report when a reporter called to ask for their reaction. As you can imagine, my brother and his family were shocked and greatly dismayed that this is how they were notified. The report IS preliminary and it will be up to the DA ultimately to determine if charges will be filed. There are still many many questions to be answered and we are still expecting a report of the full findings. Regardless of what those results show, our feelings have not changed. We love and miss Jeff very much and in the end, our goal is to known the truth, whatever that truth turns out to be.
    Thank you, "Aunt Kath".
     
  9. 93Buff

    93Buff Well-Known Member

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  10. Linebig

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    A clearer picture is being made about what happened during that fateful afternoon. Sad day for all.
     
  11. Kellen

    Kellen Owner
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    San Diego Police said;

    "The accident investigators determined Edward Davies, age 78, was driving his Nitro boat southbound at a minimum speed of 35 mph in the lane designated by buoys for southbound boat traffic. Russell Mendez, age 20, was driving his Bayliner boat northbound in the southbound lane at a minimum speed of 20 mph. Both men approached each other in a section of the lake commonly known as, 'The narrows.'

    Although evasive action was taken by both drivers, a boat collision occurred, which resulted in the deaths of Russell Mendez and his passenger, Jeremy Ingram, age 21. Edward Davies and his passenger were injured in the collision and transported to the hospital. They were treated and released. Alcohol was not a factor in this accident and there are no criminal charges pending at this time.

    As in all fatal boating accidents, the investigation will be submitted to the District Attorney's Office for final review. The District Attorney's Office will have final determination if formal criminal charges will be issued."​

    Sounds like they concluded it happened just about exactly how I thought something like this could have happened...boats approaching each other head on and confusion about which way to yield to each other.

    http://sdfish.com/forums/threads/boating-accident-at-el-capitan.145285/page-4#post-343379
     
    #11 Kellen, Aug 20, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
  12. Kellen

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    Also relieved the name of the other boat's driver has been made public. I've been fighting a battle with myself every day since this happened about whether or not to publish his name.

    In the end, figured it wasn't my place to do so. And nothing good could really come of that.
     
  13. Joefish

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    Guys this is seriously screwed up! I have been on the phone and making news camera reports of about my thoughts since 5pm. Listen to this!!!!!! I got a phone call from a news reporter about my thoughts about the results and she was wanting me to speak on camera about how I am doing. I said "What exactly are you talking about?" She then filled me in on the facts and about the Priliminary investigation results. She stated that charges are being dropped. I wasn't shocked from the results because of how pertinent information was not being said publicly. And how Kellen said about hoe this could of played out previously. But I am pissed! I unfortunately had to inform the Mendez family first of the outcome of preliminary outcome of the investigation before they were personally informed from the professional SDPD and the investigator team. I contacted Russels father to ask him if he wanted to say anything publicly about the out come, and he didn't even know yet about the report. So they gave the media the public information before giving it personally to the families. No further comment about that part from what I have herd about promises from the parties were lead to believe.
    So the preliminary report Kellen stated is accurate and I do not want to go against what professional investigators and PD have have stated. But this is still going to be seen by Bonnie Dumannis who is DA in San Diego. She is also a good professional but have let off a close personal case I had against a X roommate in the past who had certain charges dropped and "worked off" by temporarily good behavior. So I can imagine of what could further come :( I charged my Ex roommate for Felony animal cruelty charges for beating a 3 month old Siberian Husky puppy nearly to death and crippled it and paralyzed it to the point were it had to be euthanized! I personally saw it happen too late to save the puppy. I already suspected him of this from previous injuries on the puppy and his dumb reason. And a girlfriend heard him beating another dog too. So after all was done in court he was let go and swiped clean on his record of any such actions. Long story but terrible out come!
    I can see perfectly clear of how this accident is being seen by Kellen and SDPD and sounds logical all together and is unfortunate. But no one actually SAW it happen. From what quacked said on here and I talked with him a bit about this at the lake but no specific details BC it is a sad subject for me to talk about. He saw them pulling up the anchor or something like that from what I have heard and them leaving the spot heading else were like north or more down lake and was watching them because he wanted to fish that spot and was keeping an eye on it. He turned his back to pull up the trolling motor and herd the impact and looked back to see the wreck. How fast can you go in a older bay liner in that short time period?
    Also I have something to say about the preliminary report stating they were operating the boat "in the southbound lane at a minimum speed of 20 mph. Both men approached each other in a section of the lake commonly known as, "The narrows""
    Lake rules state that you are allowed to operate a vessel in any direction you choose within a 100 feet of the shore anywhere on the lake, Also stated that within a 100 feet of shore or any other boat, vessel, tuber, or skier downed or not you are to stay out of by 100 feet or go 5 mph within that space.
    The two main lake points are close rite now from the dropping water and it is undoubtedly the narrowest spot in the lake rite now and tree hole area as well. Boating laws state that if you can not operate a vessel in a safe manner under certain circumstances than you need to adjust your speed and control for the current conditions and operate accordingly. Loke how we do in vehicles on the road. If it if foggy, ice slicked roads, or heavily raining we do not need to drive the top speed limit like 65 in California and we need to drive in a safe manner and adjust to safe operating under the circumstances. That goes for boats as well! I myself with Jeffs brother Chris traveled the exact same course as the Nitro was presumed of been heading. We stayed tight to the shore line going south through the tree hole and headed up to that corner, or blondish turn. Which it is not blind! I have been around it too many times to say comfortably I can clearly see around it. So we traveled the course and could not see how they couldn't of seen it coming unless they were within 100 feet or less of the shore line traveling over 5 miles per house. As me and Chris rounded the rocky point we saw a good friend that is well respected around here fishing with his very young boy. He was nearly in the same spot as was Jeff and Russ. I thought how could you put yourself there after what had just happen. But it is fairly a safe spot if you are within a 100 feet of shore and a boater knows what he is doing rounding that bend heading towards the ramp.

    So like the accident is presumed to have happen from the preliminary report I can see the logistics behind it. But listen here;
    They stated that "bayliner was running northbound in southbound lane at a minimum speed of 20 mph." It was not a complete T Bone, more like a 30 degree angle hit. Couldn't that have made the body of Russel who was driving lean over into the throttle lever and possibly turn and hit it into a more forward position as the boat was killing both of them mowing over it? I strongly think so! Or perhaps the boat itself pushed the throttle down more. Boat-Crash-El-Capitan-Reser.jpg It takes a hand to engage the throttle out of neutral, but doesn't take a lot of force to hit it into a position that looks like a faster speed than what they were actually traveling. Throttles can get hit forward and especially by a body hitting it. Look at the throttle position in the picture. it is not far forward at all. That is my say on why they were presumed to be traveling at a minimum speed of 20mph. I know Quacker is no professional at telling speeds from a far and the other witness couldn't see it from his view of the point as quacker heard it and saw it afterwards.
    If the boys were going faster that a safe speed in a spot they shouldn't have, hands down to the investigator team! It is very unfortunate that this happen and don't know what to say except, this is sad.
    If the boys were actually within 100 feet of the shore line not on plain yet traveling in the boat at a speed of around 5 miles per hour this should not have happen regardless! I strongly believe this crash happen within a 100 feet of shore and the boys were not moving that fast of 20 mph. I think that charges should be brought to the driver for reckless driving, like on the roads. Even for speeding in a no wake zone. This resulted in the fatalities of 2 people. Look at that!!!

    I don't mean to offend any ones carriers or jobs or personal beliefs, but I look at it like that and thats why I question it.
     
    #13 Joefish, Aug 20, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
  14. Joefish

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    P.S. Russes boat did not have a trolling motor like all other bass boats. So without a anchor or trolling motor they were not able to keep a fishing course without having the main motor running. Unless they were professional drifter fisherman. Not! so there could be any number of reasons of why it was in gear. Not saying they couldn't have been moving spots, but they couldn't have been going that fast.
     
  15. Kellen

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    They could easily have been going 20 mph. That doesn't make them at fault though.

    Unless the SDPD is going solely off the word of the two men in the Nitro, you have to believe they have evidence suggesting the boat was going 20 mph or so. I mean they're professionals, I'm sure they've received training on boating accidents and have methods for determining rate of speed of involved vehicles just like they would for a traffic accident on the highway. And if they don't, I'm sure they have access to consultants who do.

    Without being drunk (and apparently he was not), I just can't see someone driving right through another boat. Especially if there were two guys in the Nitro, with two sets of eyes, you can't both be THAT distracted right?

    Thats why all along it sounded to me like either two boats approaching each other head on and there was confusion on which way they were supposed to yield to each other...or the Nitro driver was drunk, or had a heart attack or something that otherwise made him unable to control the boat.

    Since this has happened, everyone has rushed to judgement, and not really at their own fault. A lot of the info that was repeated that night turned out to be wrong, i.e. "they were drunk" or "they were flying around the lake like banshees" or "one of them left in handcuffs" and led us to believe that it was some sort of grossly negligent deal. All of those turned out to be false. They were sober, their boat is one of the slowest fiberglass bass boats in the world, and no one was handcuffed.

    You guys have to consider that this could've just been a tragic accident. Not saying there was no one to blame, because we just don't know for certain how it went down.

    I haven't seen anything concrete that would allow me to make a judgement either way.

    But again, it doesn't really matter. We lost two young anglers way too soon, they didn't deserve it either way.

    It just looks more like a tragic accident to me than anything else.
     
  16. Joefish

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    These are words out of Jerry Haras' mouth, "At this point, rite now we do not have, ouum, anything that would lead us to believe that we have enough for criminal, ouum, or prosecution or criminal charge"
    Then states that he has a professional experienced officers including a detective who has been a marine investigator for more than 20 years.
    "if you can equate it to perhaps, you know, you in a car lane. Basically you stay in your lane, and if there is another car that veers into your lane on the wrong side, obviously that would not be good and cause an, it is a factor that is causing the collision." Jerry Hara quoted on NBC 7 news.

    That is a horrible example to base this investigation off of, or try to relate it to the public because car lanes and freeways are not like boating water! For example, is a car lane or freeway expected to dump off a person holding onto a rope 100 feet in front of your boat? Boats make huge turns in front of you and have no blinkers or hazard signals. But cars sure do! It is very common to encounter a boat traveling in the wrong direction temporarily at any given moment on a lake water surface. How often do you encounter cars traveling the wrong direction of traffic in designated street lanes? Not much I'm sure, or less than boats.
    Boating is very un similar to the way vehicles drive and if thats what they are basing this investigation off of. This is BS, and even if they are basing it off what the perpetrator boaters said, it is bias!
     
  17. Linebig

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    It is very typical of the media to hunt down and try to get as much dirty laundry as they can. They want to put on air or radio someone crying or someone really mad. So they grab and pull at anything they can and it is horrible. They have no regard for the families or friends. So fully understand you being up set at how the families were brought into this. The media jumped like dogs after a bone .

    As for the investigation, I have no idea what happened out there. I can however absolutely see two boats doing that when both are under power. I have been boating for too long to not have witnessed very close calls on the water with boater confusion. I know we want someone to be charged it is a human feeling and the human mind set when someone has a horrible thing happen to them.

    I have almost been run over or had to throttle down and swerve from someone blasting out of a cove when I was fully in the right of way and traveling at normal speeds.

    The investigators had to go off the information they had , if they had an eye witness and that eyewitness said the blue boat just slammed their boat and the other boat was totally in the right of way then there would be criminal charges. We have yet to hear anyone come forward with that information? Not speculation of how it happened. If people were there and they saw it happen they should have been interviewed , they should have been at the station under oath getting questioned about what they saw. If someone has real information from seeing it happen and did not come forward and explain what they saw then shame on them.

    This is tragic , horrifying and a wake up call to all boaters.
     
  18. RKMM

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    The investigators did come out to the San Vicente Yard and spent a considerable amount of time (I'd say at least 4-5 hours) taking/making measurements on both vessels.

    Edit: I simply put this out there since this was an aspect of the case that had not been discussed (ie eyewitness statements, sun, wind, boat direction/locations, etc were all brought up) and I wasn't sure if anyone was aware that this type of investigation had occurred; nothing more, nothing less.
     
    #18 RKMM, Aug 21, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
  19. otay michael

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    The phrase 'boat lanes' should never have been used, it's a non-issue for bass fishermen. Show them to me at Otay, Hodges, etc.. What, there are none? You're kidding, why not? Because it's for the ski crowds not to run over each other. Ridiculous is a word that comes to mind, but then again, in a civil lawsuit, which I hope will happen, this illogical notion to give them immunity will be called hogwash, as it should be. We fisherman putt back and forth in each direction along the shore, sometimes 100' out, and then putt across the lake sometimes too. Get a clue detectives.
     
  20. Joefish

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    Strongly agree, poor mourning families now have to lawyer up and fight for what is right! This investigation is a bunch of "hog wash" like stated! Poor, poor stuff all together about how it was preformed.

    Linebig said,
    "It is very typical of the media to hunt down and try to get as much dirty laundry as they can. They want to put on air or radio someone crying or someone really mad. So they grab and pull at anything they can and it is horrible. They have no regard for the families or friends. So fully understand you being up set at how the families were brought into this. The media jumped like dogs after a bone ."
    Well put!

    I just listened to news 8 and they are still in the stone age. After 3 weeks of the facts about whom died in what boat, they still managed to get it completely *** backwards!
    News 8 is reporting that the 2 boys were in the X 5 Nitro and and were killed because they were speeding, and that the survivors were in the byliner boat and a candle light vigilance was held in memorial of the 2 men in the X5 Nitro.
    Mann, News 8 are idiots!

    Here me here, Edward Davies probably got lawyered up rite away. And not just any old lawyer but a Veteran Affairs lawyer. If he got that kind of lawyer they can make the world spin off axis. Veteran lawyers are much more powerful than regular lawyers and can bring this case into a veteran court system as well. They are relating this crash to a accident on the road ways were we have lanes and such previously stated by others.
    It sounds like they are not taking into account very accurately about the path the boats were traveling, and timing. From someone watching them fish waiting for the spot and seeing them attempting to leave so he pulls up his trolling motor and hears a crash. That is not much time to get unto a minimum of 20 miles per hour. Plus if the bayliner was traveling at a minimum speed of 20 miles per hour don't you think there would be more sliding crazy marks on the bayliner and a really bad wreck than just a plain V mark out of the side of it. I believe this case did not have much good looking at it was not performed properly. It was a politics case and a waist of time for the investigating team.
    Lawyers can do a lot!
     
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