State of the Union

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by fisheromen, Jan 30, 2018.

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  1. rana

    rana Well-Known Member

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    I wish it could have been/be so. Unfortunately our Country has been infested with bigotry, racism and slavery from the git-go.
     
  2. swings are free

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    You mean the entire world right?
     
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  3. rana

    rana Well-Known Member

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    I'm not buying it but some people are. That is the intent of the article.
     
  4. Daddo

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    I didn't post it for your approval. You're quite hateful in your opinions of our President. Shame...
     
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  5. Daddo

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    Mission accomplished. Have a great day.
     
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  6. Creek

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    Rana..

    I'm missing something. Disagreeing is totally a cool thing here. But I'm trying to figure out exactly what you disagree with? The fact that I don't "bang away?" Or the fact that I don't get off shooting my weapons? Or is it disbelief that I haven't shot my house weapons in three years? Or maybe you don't buy into the fact that I maintain my weapons meticulously? Or do you not believe the current laws surrounding bad guys committing ADW crimes are too lenient?

    I would love to understand what statement you disagree with. Any help you could offer would be appreciated.
     
  7. rana

    rana Well-Known Member

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    Hi.

    Yes, your statement, "We have shootings for one real reason..." is simplistic. I think every mass shooter is there for his own reasons and individual shooters are in multiple circumstance. The 'good guy's' and 'bad guy's' as you refer to them.

    Sometimes it's almost comical. The two 'good guy's' in Arizona who became involved in a road rage incident with themselves, both got out, both fired and both dead. Funny? and two men are dead and two families are on the dole with Daddy breadwinners gone.

    Personally, and with a long history with firearms, I feel we have shown that we are not capable of using them prudently in this country. 35,000+ deaths by gun ANNUALLY in this country bears this out. We are the most violent first-world society on the planet.

    " All kinds of people own guns, for all kinds of reasons. Still, some demographic features of gun ownership tend to reinforce a particular political posture. A 2017 Pew Research Center study found that forty-eight per cent of white men own a gun, compared with twenty-five per cent of white women, twenty-five per cent of non-white men, and sixteen per cent of non-white women. Gun owners are far more likely to live in rural areas. Forty-one per cent of whites with a bachelor’s degree are gun owners, versus twenty-six per cent of whites with a more advanced degree. Half of all gun owners say that ownership is essential to their identity.

    Fear is a factor: nearly half of male gun owners and almost a third of female owners say that they have a loaded gun “easily accessible to them at all times at home.” According to the Pew study, “There is a significant link between owning a gun for protection and perceptions of whether the world broadly speaking has become more dangerous.” Jennifer Carlson, a sociologist who interviewed male gun owners in Michigan, found that many of them considered firearms crucial to reclaiming a sense of purpose, especially if they were no longer breadwinners.

    Security, nostalgia for an era of unchallenged privilege, a sense of beleaguered white masculinity: these are powerful forces. They helped get Donald Trump elected. Advocacy for gun-control laws may never provide the same single-minded identity that politicized gun ownership seems to exert. But this year, again thanks in part to the Parkland students, it’s beginning to take a stronger hold. People who want this moment to mean something should remember that they are the majority, and that they, too, can choose, for however long it takes, to be single-issue voters."

    Recognizing that there is dissension and many pro/con articles abound I am including one that is well sourced and indicates our position in the First World with guns. Charts and graphs and facts...not 'Fake news."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/...ath-rates-the-us-is-in-a-different-world.html

    Keep in mind Creek that 275 peoples lives will be impacted TODAY by guns. Nearly a hundred will die. Of the survivors many will be tragically wounded and unable to function normally for life with many having to be dependent on the welfare of others or the state to survive at a severely diminished level, a reality I do not see addressed in pro-gun literature but a very real concern in these days of fiscal irresponsibility in our Nation.

    I had no idea what your utilization of firearms was but I wanted you to know that my response
    "I didn’t think that was ever in question Creek. Bang-Away…" to your statement
    "I'll be hanging on to mine regardless." was sincere. Enjoy your firearms. Even though today they have a limited valid usefulness it is a great hobby. I was totally into it to the point of reloading for several of my rifles. Didn't mess with it for the shotguns or pistols though.

    Regards...
     
  8. Larry M

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    Very articulated and well-written post.
    From what I gather from your research the majority of gun owners are white with only 25% non White.
    I didn't copy the whole article but here's some exerts from Snopes a think tank group of people that do fact checks. I'm sure that all these shootings in the cities are done by the majority of crazy white men since white people have most of the weapons according to your post. I doubt if the majority of these weapons where purchased legally.

    Screenshot_2018-03-25-09-12-09-1.png

    Screenshot_2018-03-25-09-12-24-1-1.png

    Screenshot_2018-03-25-09-12-31-1.png
     
    #248 Larry M, Mar 25, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
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  9. Creek

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    Rana,

    Respectfully, you chose to introduce race into the thread via some demographic literature. Because of that I'm going to back out of this discussion, although I'll keep watching it because I've got a feeling others will take notice as well and I'm interested to hear what others may have to say. Guns aren't the issue here. It's the people that pull the trigger. They're the issue. Race doesn't matter.

    Thanks for the explanations from the angle you're seeing the issue. I'm sure your intentions are totally wholesome and well-intended. And I still believe it's very cool to disagree with anyone's position on any matter. Just highly bummed that race had to be brought into the mix. Guns don't understand race. Again very respectfully, Mike
     
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  10. rana

    rana Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I believe that was in conjunction with the studies I have researched. You may also note that for the purpose of sociological demographics, educational attainment, location; rural vs urban, gender, emotional stability,…were also included as viable to the study.

    And I do believe easy access to guns is a major part of the problem. Suicide numbers by gun are horrendous, many of those folks might have been saved if they had to go find a knife, gas, drugs, bridge...as well as those whose emotional state has caused them to easily obtain a weapon that was only made to kill and use it to relieve the terrible stress they were experiencing.

    Interestingly, in my readings of yesterdays march against guns in the common media the preponderance of the commenters were bemoaning the fact that they were being asked to be led from the darkness of hate, bigotry and ignorance by a Bi-Sexual Cuban Girl, not that they should examine their perspectives on firearms.

    One of the neat things about life in this country is that we HAVE IT ALL! Nothing you can’t get, run across, be aware of or informed about in this country if you just open yourself up, look, and experience. (except for legal halibut) We really are fortunate on the World's stage, I just hope we don't kill each other off.

    Thanks for considering my comments.
     
  11. camobass

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    Clinton prefers untraceable, heart-attack inducing poison over guns
     
  12. camobass

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    I assume he is talking about a bang stick
     
  13. RolloTomasi

    RolloTomasi “,,, prisoner in a world of mystery...”
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    or guns ( vince foster) or plane crashes (ron brown), many say. btw, webb hubbell is not chelsea's father; janet reno is. thanks and remember to tip your waiter.
     
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  14. 5spot

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    I am just thankful for.....

    “As I watch the March for Our Lives Children’s Crusade I’m struck by how struck the media is with the size of the crowds demanding that the government degrade and destroy their right to keep and bear arms. As expected it’s both frustrating and depressing. I assume some of you feel the same way. So keep this in mind . . .

    Your right to keep and bear arms is an individual, natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right.

    As a Constitutionally protected right, the right to keep and bear arms is not subject to the democratic process. Which invalidates any and all arguments that your individual right to keep and bear arms can be regulated for the common good.

    No matter how many Americans want to infringe (i.e. regulate) your gun rights, no mater how compelling their rationale for “the common good,” that right can not be voted away. Not without repealing the Second Amendment.”

    Robert Farago, TTAG 3/24/18
     
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  15. RolloTomasi

    RolloTomasi “,,, prisoner in a world of mystery...”
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    but pressure from a dumbed-down populace or politicians sensing indifference from a dumbed-down populace and giving in to the witch-hunt politics presently reigning might push for a repeal of the second. and if that doesn't work, there's always legislation vi the judiciary, will of the people be damned.
     
  16. rana

    rana Well-Known Member

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    Re: "...the crowds demanding that the government degrade and destroy their right to keep and bear arms."

    I don't think you 'got it' Robert. That statement is erroneous. They really don't want to get killed during civics.
     
  17. 5spot

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    Nah, don’t think you understand. Reduced to the most simple, the kids don’t know they are asking for a restricting of their/our own rights.

    Getting killed in civics is an appeal to the emotional. I don’t want kids getting kids killed in civics either, nor does any NRA member or any pro 2A supporter.
     
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  18. rana

    rana Well-Known Member

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    17 students were killed in class. An appeal to the emotional???

    Over 7,000 kid's killed since Sandy Hook. SEVEN THOUSAND!!! Yeah, I get emotional.

    I was an NRA member until I stopped shooting competitively, there was no reason to continue. NRA was becoming very political at that time also, discovering that they could become much more than an aggregator and disseminator for the sport and instead could claim Corporate riches through lobbying legislators.

    I am totally for the Second Amendment as written. I do not though subscribe to the oft-repeated fantasy that we need to bear arms to save ourselves from our Government and that we require firearms of certain characteristic to achieve that. Hunting rifles do not need a 40 shot clip. They only thing these AR's are for is killing people. The guy in vegas got off over 90 rounds in less than 10 seconds using a bump stock. No reason to have that kind of firepower commonly and easily available.
     
  19. 5spot

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    No, your comment on civic class was an emotional appeal then you jump to 7000 kids. It’s to be expected.

    The AR is America’s rifle now, used for hunting, competition and personal defense. Can’t cork the genie back in the bottle. Teenagers, government and gun control groups will try. Maybe they will be sucesssful.

    Regarding the deaths, it’s people not an inanimate object.
    Try the fundamental breakdown of the family structure, psych meds overuse in kids, laws in place not being enforced or LE not doing their duty. ...try those.

    I’m out, read the other gun debate threads.
     
  20. RolloTomasi

    RolloTomasi “,,, prisoner in a world of mystery...”
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    you're for the 2nd, as written, but you don't follow the fantasy about the gov't taking over... wait, that's half the rationale. Also, you say its fantasy but madison (and history) say otherwise... survey says:madison wins. last, your emotional state is not the issue of using emotion rather than logic and fact. i would also really like to see a rebuttal or explanation of larry's "city murder chart. " one more: the michigan study of gun owners saw gun ownership increasing as an effect of cultural decline, not as a cause.
     
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