The virus; possible treatments and therapies

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Bassnbeans, Dec 3, 2021.

  1. Bassnbeans

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    Starting this thread as to not hijack another.

    PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, no memes or sarcastic posts here. I’m honestly hoping for illumination of the issue to get people critically thinking and really considering it from other aspects (I won’t say I can’t change my mind, but someone needs to make me). Through the years here on SDFish, I have discovered that we have some highly intelligent forum members that don’t mind getting stinky by cutting bait! LOL! Cool folks!

    William Campbell and Neuroshima were engaging me in some dialogue regarding possible therapeutic options for the ongoing virus situation. Not trying to call anyone out, just tagging them so they can easily respond if they choose to.
    I was challenged about stating that there was a lot of information coming out that ivermectin was effective in usage against said current virus.

    OK, could we at least agree that good quality research is difficult to produce. It takes time and effort. The highest quality of evidence is meta analysis of multiple large scale controlled studies which we simply haven’t had time for yet, so the studies up to this point should, in my opinion, be treated with the upmost scrutiny (they can’t be that good, yet)

    The studies that Neuro linked are almost all (necessarily so) from 2021 and of varying cohort sizes and limited scope (as best I can tell with a cursory review. Like I said, more obligations these days than an extensive grinding of that kind of literature, sorry). Call me a skeptic, but it’s concerning to me how these studies come out en masse just as they are seemingly needed to bolster certain points of view. I will digress a bit to say that I never saw published studies about surgical mask efficacy for the prevention/reduction of transmission of airborne disease before last year (Kaiser certainly did not approve them for inpatient care when I worked there). To digress a bit more I could say that there is probably a lot of taxpayer funding floating around now for the “right kind” of researchers to grab at the moment (sorry, can’t help thinking of the birthday dollar-chamber-thing at Chuk E. Cheese. LOL!) Again, always skeptical.

    Lets posit 2 simple hypotheses about this. 1) The studies on NIH site could be right and ivermectin is ineffective as an antiviral for SARS2, or 2) the published data from the NIH is inaccurate and ivermectin is actually an effective therapeutic.

    If 1, CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN why major pharmaceutical companies are rushing to patent new molecules which have the same mechanism of action/pathway (3 CL protease inhibitor) as ivermectin in order to sell to people as a therapy for THIS VERY virus? (I always try to keep a eye on the $, because ya’ know the old saying “money talks”). It at least looks like the money is backing a play along this course.

    As for case 2, I would like to preface by saying that the “industry” is not above reproach, and has indeed, in the past, used its leverage to try and silence those whose approach to medical care might interfere with their profitability. (Kindly look up Dr. Barry Marshall’s struggles with getting his dead-on analysis of gastric ulcers published) That said, there is evidence that ivermectin is effective as a therapeutic for these viruses (please refer again to the above as to pharma’s pursuit of next-gen iver) India had very good results with ivermectin as a prophylaxis and treatment
    070FA9A8-5602-4313-86EB-69CDDAAE4E72.jpeg

    Mexico did too.

    Japan began distributing ivermectin when delta hit and their spike in cases plummeted dramatically after a couple of weeks
    42617BCB-5E68-40CC-8EDC-3EB27A3917DF.jpeg
    I realize these aren’t tightly controlled studies, but they are good sample sizes and demonstrate a significant effect. Why aren’t they being held up as an example here and everywhere in the world as an off-ramp for this disease? ($). Why are we only being shown the NIH data that it doesn’t work? Anytime the government (I include the politburo, here) tries to suppress information rather than soundly refuting it makes me think, hmmm…

    Respectfully…
     
  2. Werfless

    Werfless The Coach ..RIP my friends
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    Ok. So, as a dude who has put ivermectin into numerous living organisms I will chime in. I am NOT AN EXPERT ON HUMAN BIOLOGY.. that said, I might have something to contribute. Ivermectin is far more toxic than most of it's cohorts (like fenbendazole), so, if you're planning to use it for ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING, I would wholeheartedly suggest you be very careful with dosages due to toxicity. I know a number of people who have killed reptile imports with iver, but never one who killed a herp with fenben.. not sure how it applies to viral control at all, I know I would be jumpy though. Only thing more scary to me than a vacc in testing for less than a year being 95% effective is some toxic anti parasitic being administered in quantities capable of unknown results, especially if it's toxic to the point of death in animals.. just saying. Use your best judgement, people
     
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  3. Bassnbeans

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    Judicious advice , Coach. Thank you. It was certainly not my intention to encourage anybody to do anything without being under the care of a medical doctor who is able to monitor them closely. And, damn nice opaleye! ;).
     
  4. William Campbell

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    I had breakthrough COVID through March of this year (2021). Beginning in January, 2021 I had received both Moderna vaccine injections. A friend insisted I do a tele-visit with his MD who specializes in COVID. After reviewing my health data the doc had me take Ivermectin mailed from a compounding pharmacy in New York. Within a few days my fever dropped, my chest cleared up, and my taste came back. Who's to say what would have happened sans Ivermectin? To this day I am weaker than normal even though a battery of tests are negative. Is my fatigue from COVID or from Ivermectin? I'll probably never know. I AM a big believer in the "Scientific Method" i.e., double blind crossover testing.
     
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  5. cort

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    I think if there was data that Ivermectin worked, the medical community (including the various governmental agencies) would embrace it as a treatment. William Campbell - glad you are feeling better, but it's likely that your body fought off COVID on its own, with or without the dewormer. Would seriously question the credentials of any "MD" who would prescribe that stuff.
     
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  6. Easy619

    Easy619 Tug Addict
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    I think it is of importance to acknowledge that Ivermectin is indeed used as a dewormer in horses, dogs and cats, but that it is also used as treatment for malaria and other parasitic infections in humans.

    Not recommending anyone take it or whether it is a viable option for covid, but the news just loves to rail on Joe Rogan and any other non-lib who mentions ivermectin, always referring to it as horse dewormer. It is indeed used in humans.
     
  7. cort

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    A virus barely qualifies as a living creature, is the thing, a parasitic organism (like malaria, or worms) is a completely different kind of animal.
     
  8. hookemdano

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  9. Easy619

    Easy619 Tug Addict
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    This is true, a virus is considered non living but straddles the line. It operates as a living organism with the exception that it requires a host to replicate.

    Whether it works for covid or not, I get the feeling the news has been handed stacks of cash to bash any treatment other than the very profitable vaccination...which works so well that people regularly test positive when vaccinated, some die still, and now we need a booster.

    Covid is a serious thing but the cash grab is real
     
  10. fisheromen

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    Have known many who have complained of fatigue weeks after having covid. Your strength will return.
     
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  11. Larry M

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    After getting the frist shot I slept most of the day.
     
  12. bassgalrascal

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    I just read an article that says that a virus is a parasite(edit), but much smaller than a bacteria.
    What Are Viruses?
     
    #12 bassgalrascal, Dec 4, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
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  13. cort

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    Article does not say that viruses are a bacteria - FYI. (and they aren't)
     
  14. old_rookie

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    When I had covid I think I only took acetaminophen or ibuprofen. That was it. Took a few days of feeling terrible.
     
  15. Exmedicated Fisherman

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    Many doctors have embraced it's use against Covid. You would question a "MD"s credentials? How many years of medical school did you take? Where did you get your PhD?
     
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  16. Exmedicated Fisherman

    Exmedicated Fisherman Well-Known Member

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    Cort you disagree with what? So then how many years of medical schooling do you have? You come across as some sort of authority, I am just curious what makes you qualified. Watching CNN doesn't count.
     
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  17. cort

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    I'm not a doctor, and neither are you. Define "many" doctors. I work with doctors every day, dozens of them - no exaggeration. I've discussed this topic with around 20 of them, and I've yet to find one that thinks ivermectin is a legit therapy for COVID. I believe three of them said they would prescribe it if a patient asked, because it's "unlikely" to harm the patient (if prescribed and taken properly).

    But that said - The majority have said they wouldn't prescribe it because:

    1) It wouldn't do anything to help the patient's COVID - anecdotal discussions and popular podcasts aside, real doctors look at study data and the recommendations from organizations such as the AMA - and yes those governmental agencies that study disease too, that have been somehow vilified in right-wing media.
    2) It can potentially cause harm if taken in the wrong dose (most likely to happen if someone gets it via alternate means, like from a veterinary source, dosed for a 2000 pound animal) and they don't want to encourage it being taken.
    3) It can cause harm to the patient if it reacts with other medication people are taking.
    4) It depletes the supply of the drug for its intended uses - for people its used for things like ringworm and a handful of parasitic infections.

    Anyway, that's not my opinion, that's what I've been told, and it's consistently the same message - the three guys who said they would prescribe it basically said they'd do it just because they don't want to spend their time debating the matter with someone who clearly has made up their mind that the medical community is out to get them, in cahoots with the democrats, etc etc etc.

    Side note, monoclonal antibodies ARE a legit treatment for COVID.

    Lastly - I don't give two ****s what was on CNN, that is irrelevant to this discussion - and CNN is a garbage news outlet (as is Fox News).
     
  18. bassgalrascal

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    My bad. I meant to say "parasite" is what the article says they are.
     
  19. Exmedicated Fisherman

    Exmedicated Fisherman Well-Known Member

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    I agree with some of what you said but you seem to be conflating a dose recommended by their doctor and some one popping horse dewormers. Yes it can be dangerous when people take a dose recommended for a large animal. Joe Rogan took it as recommended by his doctor along with other treatments. I am not claiming it works I am just claiming many doctors have been giving it as part of their treatments. I also wouldn't question a doctors credentials for recommending it or not recommending it.
     
  20. William Campbell

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    Many of my relatives are M.D.s. One of my best friends here in San Diego is an M.D. Only reason I took Ivermectin is because, after 2 trips to ER and 2 trips to Urgent Care I was told there are no meds for treating COVID by all the docs in those facilities.
    Desperate people do desperate things and after almost a month of debilitating symptoms I was ready to try anything. I'm not even sure the Ivermectin helped.
     
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