The Wall and The Liars

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Creek, Feb 19, 2019.

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  1. Daddo

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  2. mikecheck1212

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    Don’t really look to the duck dudes for policy making but the fence he has would probably cost us about 116,000,000 to cover 2000 miles...I’m cool with that..
     
  3. Daddo

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    The logic cannot be disputed no matter how hard one tries. End.
     
  4. mikecheck1212

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    It’s been disputed..easily actually..
     
  5. Daddo

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    The logic of keeping strangers/unknowns away from your protected zone as a Family/Home and Country? Really? Dude, you're smarter than that. Come on. I respectfully submit to you that the debate is about taking advantage of the taxpayers. Not what is a worldwide humanitarian effort to accept everyone who has a tough time. Well, why the US? I cannot afford it. Can you? Again, respectfully.
     
  6. plako

    plako Well-Known Member

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  7. mikecheck1212

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    No..the logic that a 20billion dollar fence is gonna be effective at stopping that..that’s been my argument...if you think 20 bill on a fence is gonna be more effective than punishing employers who hire illegals I would have to disagree....we live in San Diego...our border is pretty secure..we have lots of fences here...we also have lost of illegal immigrants...so if these fences are so great why aren’t they working?...because a majority of the people coming here our coming here to work...if we took that away it would do dramatically more than any wall could ever do at a fraction of the cost..but younand I both know it’s not about a wall anymore...it’s about who is gonna win the tug of war..the dummy’s on the left..or the dummy’s on the right...dont confuse my respect for people that did what they had to do as me advocating for open borders...those are two different arguments...I’ve explained why I have an issue with the rhetoric already...
     
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  8. mikecheck1212

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    Anytime you wanna provide these facts and logic you keep mentioning I’ll be here waiting...or just continue blaming your lack of being able to express your point of view on the other parties..
     
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  9. Daddo

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    No disrespect toward anyone on my part. I wish there were a simple anwer and there is not. If there were, my guess is that it would be in place. Just do stuff by the law of our Country. Not too much to ask, right? Things are tough everywhere. Edit: Why is it that we must be the save-all. Near as I can tell anyway.
     
    #229 Daddo, Mar 20, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  10. mikecheck1212

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    i think we agree for the most part...we just disagree on how we get it done...again the fact that i don't think a wall will be effective, and the fact that i have compassion and understand why people come here in the first place are two different things..my compassion doesnt blind me to the fact that we have problems that we need to take care of...my compassion doesnt blind me to the fact that illegal immigration is illegal...i understand all those things...i know we can't save everybody...i just dont think a wall is gonna be what saves us....build the wall and well still have the same issues...just with a 20 billion dollar monument surrounding us...the average fine for an employee hiring an illegal immigrant is about 500 bucks...doesnt seem like a great deterent to me...
     
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  11. Fishin_Buddy

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    Good morning!!!

    C30E7666-2983-4A50-95FD-04141515C2F5.jpeg
     
  12. plako

    plako Well-Known Member

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    I actually do agree with you. The obstruction of passing eVerify laws and imposing more severe penalties for breaking it is a very good proof for the corruption of the ruling elites. Also, if border security is privatized it will certainly be more efficient and less costly if it was possible to have a free competition between the private companies bidding for such a large contract. A wall alone won't stop the influx of "asylum" seekers, it is more like a political statement and an election promise. I was far more interested in another election promise to close unnecessary military bases around the world and bring the troops home. So far, this went the other way maybe with some very minor and insignificant exceptions.
     
  13. Medicated fisherman

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    The CBP says fences are effective at aiding in the apprehension of illegal crossers. I don't think anyone is saying lets just build a wall and it will stop all illegal immigration and smuggling. It is a physical barrier that slows forward progress enough that agents have time to respond and be there when they do get over it. I also think more severe penalties for employers that hire them will help.
     
  14. mikecheck1212

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    Ehhh...sure...it wouldn’t make it easier to get across...that’s kind of a loaded question...what’s more effective and and affordable? Going after employers in my opinion..that creates a wall of sorts..and we might actually make some money off it...an 18 billion dollar fence? Now if we’re talking even less than a billion I’d be cool with it...I have literally been standing in line in Tijuana and seen people make a human ladder and jump the wall there..in broad daylight...50 feet from the doors of the border...and the wall there is an actual wall...border patrol cannot be everywhere..I just think it’s too costly and once it’s built the problem will still exist..
     
  15. plako

    plako Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, the prospects for better employment are no longer the most attractive factor for those coming with the caravans. The traditional stream of working-age males crossing the border illegally in hope to start some low-paid jobs "that Americans just won't do" and then sending money back home to their families is drying and disappearing.
    Today's illegal immigrants are arriving ready to ask directly for the benefits to which they feel are entitled because of "the American imperialism abuse" of their home countries. Just look at the caravans or the CBP statistics for dramatic increase of families percentage of the illegal crossings quoted even in the local El Latino. And this is why they are asking for fake "asylum" recognition.
    Without solving the problem with the benefits and changing the asylum laws there will be no solution of the influx of free-loaders from the South. UN is protecting them. F**k the corrupt UN bureaucrats and establish refugee camps in the country of origin of the asylum seekers protected by UN blue helmets, then finance this operation from what is paid to UN. Let's see then how many will stay under such protection and how many will prefer to return to their homes. As for those refugees already in the country, feel free to relocate where the cost of their support will be lower, i.e. if you rely on public benefits we'll tell you where to live. Certainly not in East LA where the cost of support is much higher than that for example in Minnesota or Dacotas. And not ever grant them permanent residence right. Rather, revise the conditions in their country of origin periodically and after major political changes and return the refugees when conditions are determined to be safe. When there is no freedom to live anywhere and no promise for permanent residence let's see how many will apply for asylum.
    Of course, the above will never happen and the influx of free-loaders will dry naturally only when our Empire crumbles and there are no more guaranteed benefits. Believe me or not, I'm not blaming those in the caravans but rather their organizers and the existing system,
     
  16. mikecheck1212

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    but none of that mentions how a wall will stop that...
     
  17. Medicated fisherman

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    You could take a prison tour to get the basic concept of how walls work if your having trouble with it. You guys keep claiming we just want a wall. We want more technology, agents, crackdown on employers and yes a wall. You guys want a poor dependent voting class.
     
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  18. mikecheck1212

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    oh here we go with the prison wall comparison...apples to oranges son...when i heard the chanting all i heard was build that wall...i did not hear "build that wall..crack down on employers..more technology...more agents...and well gladly pay for it ourselves"...now why would you make a comment about ":you guys" wanting a poor dependent voting class...first of all, didnt you just whine in the other thread about me making an assumption about a whole side of people?...thought we were gonna apply this across the board...at least i had hope...secondly, i already stated what i think would be a better solution here...yet you still make your old outdated claims...
     
    #238 mikecheck1212, Mar 28, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
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  19. Fishin_Buddy

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    Illegal immigration is only part of the problem. I think we need to use all of the tools we have at our disposal. More border patrol; more and better surveillance technologies; strict penalties that make employing illegal immigrants unappealing; and a wall that slows the forward progress of mass immigration, drug smuggling, etc.
     
  20. Medicated fisherman

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    Just because they're old claims doesn't mean its not true. Prison walls work that is why every prison has one. How do you stop the flow without a barrier. The professionals are asking for a wall but you somehow know a better way despite spending zero hours patrolling the border. How do you stop those crossing on foot?
     
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