Trump caves!

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by scisports, Jan 25, 2019.

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  1. Chriwilson

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    Comprehensive approach is exactly what the CBP has been asking for. In reality, this is the easy part of this complex problem. We cannot fix it on our own since our southern neighbors don’t carry the same importance with regards to keeping people out. For example, would not surprise me to see a spike in migration from people originating from Venezuela. But, countries between them and us continue to allow free-flow movement.

    My comments about training in humanitarian situations is purely about covering our six. Especially of those who are not primarily trained or specialized in these scenarios. I’d hate to see the ambulance chasers lining up if you know what I mean...
     
  2. Chriwilson

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    It wouldn’t surprise me to be an actual statement. Like the song goes - “...People are Crazy...”
     
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  3. Creek

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    Somebody here was recently saying how the bad guys were just going to tunnel under a wall anyway.. I don't recall who that was.:emoji_thinking:
     
  4. Daddo

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  5. Chriwilson

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    Are you implying that they won't go over and under a wall ?
    We know that they already do...

    The fence/wall alone - No
    Tunnel rats stay busy stalking border drug smugglers

    A Barrier as part of a comprehensive solution - Yes
    The article reinforces that approach from multiple countries

    For transparency, the "99%" effectiveness should be attributed to the 143 mile section of the Israeli wall along the Egyptian border, and not in the West Bank.
     
    #145 Chriwilson, Feb 1, 2019
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  6. Creek

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    I think we've found out that they literally go everywhere.
     
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  7. Chriwilson

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    Related to this topic - Just something that's been on my mind lately...
    But seriously, how do you round up and deport what is effectively the metro population of Los Angeles ?

    Logistically and resource wise - how can it get done given that this volume is dispersed across the country ?
     
  8. Larry M

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    I believe that's the problem. Those who came here illegally, those that over stayed their visas and nothing was done
    about it. Now we have another large group of people wanting in, legally or illegally.
    So saying that the problem is to big so let's just forget about it.
    I look at it this way. If you have cancer and don't try to control it, it will spread until it's too late to do anything about it.
     
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  9. crawdadguy

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    If walls dont work why are they around nearly every school in our area?
     
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  10. Troy

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    Big difference between a school and 2000+ miles of wilderness.

    A wall might work in some places but not others along the border. It has to be a mix of wall/barrier and technology.

    I’m personally not in favor of a wall spanning the entire border I think it’s a waste of money. At the same time we can’t just let anyone in the country who wants in. I think you need to mix up both options.

    If I wanted Mexico to pay for border security I’d just slap a fat tax on all wire transfers from the us to Mexico. Most of the people who come illegally are sending some their cash back every month... Say maybe 20% tax?
     
    #150 Troy, Feb 1, 2019
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  11. Chriwilson

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    Your question is highly ambiguous, but in short, it all boils down to what the wall was intended.

    Walls work well to abate noise, visibility, wind, and critters to a degree.

    That wall’s true utility can be offset by motivating factors. In truth, a wall is only a primary barrier or diversion in a security or defense system.

    A common example I’ve read that cracks me up is the preverbial rich estate and their wall.

    Do you believe that Elmer J. Fudd in his mansion doesn’t have cameras, an alarm system and probably a hotline to armed security response - In Addition to a wall?
     
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  12. Creek

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    That's exactly right. We've had federal immigration laws in place forever that simply haven't really been enforced. The problem of illegal immigration is so rampant, there's just not enough manpower to gain any control over it. We had opportunity to meet the challenge of illegal immigration head-on. But politicians and the general public allowed this stuff to go on and on. Now we have a President that understands national security and immigration and is willing to help get the country and LE back to upholding laws that should have been upheld all along. And what happens? Mysteriously, those that were once all about national security want nothing to do with it. What could cause that? A President that isn't a politician and has the best interests of the country at heart, that's what caused that.

    The issue of lack of manpower exists in local LE as well. There just aren't enough officers to handle all of the true criminal matters going on. If the crime isn't active and doesn't involve a weapon, or injury or death, it takes a back seat to the problems that do. Thus, "the stack" gets deeper and deeper, and your simple call (not so simple to you, but simple nonetheless) now has no ETA whatsoever for any officer to handle. Not a day goes by where some of the lesser-priority calls don't even get responded to. And if there's a shooting, a chase, a homicide, an officer involved shooting or something with heavy media presence (because badges love to text wives and girlfriends to turn on Channel 5 (I know - most people wont want to hear that, but that's the way it is - secret info.. oh my gawd ! Cops are human too !) etc, you can pretty much forget seeing anyone at all for your report. You'll be calling back having to re-insert yourself in the stack, and you'll be left wondering why you are being ignored. Priority calls and not enough cops to handle all of the societal issues going on. Things have changed. It's a different culture. Lots more problems out there.. mostly drug/alcohol involved.

    Many property reports are handled without an officer present. You can now make your claims by placing a simple phone call. The people that man the phone end of it are mostly the newer dispatchers - they get stuck with the grunt jobs just like you'd expect - and for the most part they seem to freaking hate it. So if you call them to make a report of any kind, don't be surprised if they don't seem thrilled to hear from you - even if you treat them with obvious courtesy and respect. But if I had to listen to every callers life story, take boring property reports and assign case numbers for a twelve-hour shift each day or night, I'd be a little over it too.
     
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  13. Creek

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    Some clarity here.. so a school wall (not always a wall, most often a tall fence with razor wire) helps and aids in keeping out bad guys as well as dads and moms involved in custody disputes and relationship issues that might want to abduct a child or come on property and engage in a school shooting for whatever reason. What's the square acreage of a typical let's say, grade school campus? I don't know myself. Anyway...

    A border wall through 2,000 miles of wilderness (where LE resources are scattered at best) helps and aids in keeping out bad guys that will initially be committing a federal level offense by crossing, then may be committing more crimes - many very violent - once getting across. Since most of them have no cash - and we all know it takes cash to purchase things like food and drink - I think we can safely say that the priority in most cases for bad guys is to get money. But how do these poor bad guys get money if they have none when they come cross? I'm gonna go with robbery, agg robbery, agg assault, ADW, murder if necessary and alot of burglary/theft of both businesses and private residences.

    Drones and lasers and cameras and sensors are cool toys. But just like car alarms, there are ways around them. And the technology is only as good as the people entrusted with the secrets of how they work. And the bad guys (cartels) that have lots of money at their disposal aren't shy about making offers to the people that invented those toys in trade for the toys innermost secrets of how to get around their technology. Just throwing that diatribe out there. I'm still thinking the companies that make bolt cutters are salivating right now praying the US Govt approves a chain link fence, and not a wall just because that gosh-darned dynamite is so much noisier than a bolt cutter.:emoji_joy:
     
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  14. Creek

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    You mean like the walls and other security measures that surround the homes of our Senators and other government officials? Those walls? Those walls are sweeeet !!
     
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  15. Chriwilson

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    A flat tax on remittances have issues.
    Firstly, if the intent is to take money from the undocumented transactions, you will also catch US citizens who also send money to relatives abroad.
    Secondly, they will find alternate modes to get their money out and thereby diffuse and lessen the impactfulness of the tax.

    It’s all driven by human motivation...
     
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  16. Chriwilson

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    We can use their defenses as a baseline for sure - ha ha

    You raise a fair comparison:
    The areas where a wall shall be placed, should have the same modes of security as a foreign embassy.

    I still like my idea of satellite surveillance
     
    #156 Chriwilson, Feb 2, 2019
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  17. Larry M

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    Satellite surveillance would be great if there was a proper response.
    I like my idea of having small military units present to respond.
    I could care less if it freaks them out or gives them psychological problems when confronted.
    If they get the crap scared out of them maybe they would think twice about trying to cross again. Remember the tv show scared straight?
    Just a thought.

    Screenshot_2019-02-02-10-07-14-1.png
     
    #157 Larry M, Feb 2, 2019
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  18. Creek

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    I LOVE your idea of satellite surveillance - maybe with added laser technology - kinda like the Grazer satellite in the Steven Seagal movie Under Siege 2 ( just not so sure it would pass Democratic House scrutiny:emoji_joy:, (but cremating a few as their feet hit US soil might hammer the point home perfectly to the rest of those considering entering illegally - sorry - I know someone is gonna give me backlash for saying that). I just wonder (since everything costs money) exactly what the costs for a satellite surveillance endeavor would be. And we'd still need a boatload more BP officers to make the actual capture of those finding their way through.. or over.. or under.. or left.. or right.. you get the picture.
     
    #158 Creek, Feb 2, 2019
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  19. Creek

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    As predicted. So.. which thought do you disagree with, scisports ? Smoking a few federal criminals with a laser (which is never gonna happen - get real) or the need for more BP/ICE agents (which may also never happen considering the overwhelming amount of lies about national security needs that your party has coughed-up lately)?

    See, like so many others, I'm also a dreamer. That's right. I am. I dream that one day we will actually find a way to hold everyone accountable for their actions - politicians as well. And with that accountability comes mandatory sentences - like death for intentionally killing another human being. And I also like the idea of holding ALL of our politicians accountable - BOTH parties no matter their position in government. You lie and get caught, you're terminated. You steal, you get terminated and you serve a mandatory prison sentence. You behave like all the FBI agents, lawyers, internal supervisors and anyone working for the HRC campaign that were working in harmony to chase Trump BEFORE he was even elected (Strzok, Page, Steele etc - too many to even remember at this point), you go to the federal joint for as long as possible - no GOOD BEHAVIOR soft sentences. You live 24/7 with the same criminals you may have sent there. I like it... alot. I like accountability for all. I am fully responsible for my own actions, so I think everyone else should be responsible for their actions as well. That's my dream. Responsibility and accountability across the board. How's it sound?
     
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  20. Double Minor

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    Sounds like you're dreaming...
     
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