Trump! (?)

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by salt water guy, Feb 28, 2016.

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  1. fisheromen

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    While I agree with this, there is something about the question, "may I see your papers, please" that does not sit well with me!
     
  2. Rocketship

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    I do not have a problem with that. I don't see how that is the violation of freedom folks like to make it out to be. If you're a legal citizen, you have nothing to worry about. If you're not, you're going to get a ride in an air conditioned van to an air conditioned building, held for processing and then another air conditioned ride to somwhere else where your presence is legal.

    It's not like you're going to be shuffled into train cars, made to perform hard labor at a concentration camp and then dispatched.

    Punish employers who hire illegals. Reward aliens who become legal US citizens the right way and don't abuse the system.

    A wall is a huge waste of money and I think it would be more of a statement than a deterrent.

    Either way, illegal immigration is a big problem, at least it's being seriously addressed.
     
  3. EncinitasEd

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    I do not have a problem if they are asking for identification in regards to a legal stop, maybe suspect some illegal activity or if applying for a job. But, not just the color of their skin, to see if legal or not. How would you like it if you were asked to show your "papers"? I know, you are of the thought "if I'm not doing anything illegal I have nothing to worry about. Just a few minutes of my day." Where does it stop if we do this? Do we have officers walking the streets and allow them to approach anyone they desire to and ask for identification?
     
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  4. mikecheck1212

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    I agree with this...obviously only a certain part of the population is gonna be targeted...it may not be that big of a deal to break out an id..but we shouldn't have too..
     
  5. salt water guy

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    So I have been reading up a bit on the latest Trump announcements. I was intrigued with his idea of creating a “deportation force” to round up all the illegals. (Think about that for a minute. Wouldn’t AZ sheriff Joe Arpaio be the ideal person to head this new agency??)

    I’m trying to envision how this would work and just for kicks I broke out the calculator to run some numbers.

    OK, let’s use round numbers and say that there are 11,000,000 undocumented individuals that have somehow been rounded up and held in detention centers for processing. Let’s also assume these individuals are placed on buses for the trip south to TJ, Ciudad Juarez, etc.

    40 per bus means 275,000 buses. Also, let’s assume approx. 1 minute to process each individual and verify paperwork.

    40 minutes per bus. If the deportation force and other agencies worked around the clock to process all these folks and everything went smoothly, we’re looking at 21 years to accomplish this! Hmmm…

    "In May, a report by the right-leaning think tank American Action Forum estimated that finding, detaining, legally processing and deporting everyone who is in the country illegally would cost up to $300 billion.

    To meet Trump’s two-year goal, the report said, Congress would need to appropriate money to hire, train and field about 90,000 immigration apprehension agents — up from 5,000 Enforcement and Removal Operations officers today.

    The government also would need to build about 1,250 immigration courts — there now are 57 such courts — and hire thousands more immigration judges and federal attorneys to process the caseload.

    The think tank estimates that the lost labor and purchasing power of 11 million people — many of whom work, own businesses and pay taxes — could reduce the nation’s gross domestic product by $1 trillion, equal to about $9,000 per household.

    Moreover, finding millions of undocumented migrants almost certainly would entail immigration agents entering homes, raiding businesses and operating roadblocks to check identity papers to separate U.S. citizens and approved immigrants from those in the country illegally, a winnowing-out process that undoubtedly would be challenged in court.

    “You will really have to tear up the social fabric to get this done,” said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, head of the nonprofit think tank."

    http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-deport-20160822-snap-story.html

    While I’m at it, anyone care to guesstimate what a 2000 mile border wall might cost? (Hint, the current 650 mile fence averaged about $3.9M per mile to build).
     
  6. mikecheck1212

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    lets also not forget due process...people are going to have to go to court to be prooven illegal...i would think...
     
  7. scisports

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    The whole wall thing is just an inflammatory campaign slogan that would be ineffective anyway. Deportation force is exactly the same. Not affordable and not doable. Even Trump knows this. The problem is, a lot of people don't do the math and actually believe it can happen.
     
  8. Rocketship

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    Trump knows deporting all of these people isn't going to work. It's just stupid to even bring up. Another reason he's a bad choice.

    The way forward is by making it unproductive for any more to come.
     
  9. fisheromen

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    Like Obamacare!
     
  10. 5spot

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    Do illegal immigrants get due process? They are not citizens.
     
  11. fisheromen

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    If someone enters my house without my permission, should I call them an intruder or an illegal occupant? Are they to be treated as a member of the family?
     
  12. Medicated fisherman

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    The "deportation force" already exists it is called ICE. They are not doing there job. As far as rounding them up goes. You seal the boarder, target individuals and businesses that hire illegals, you deport those who commit as much as a traffic infraction.
     
  13. salt water guy

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    The constitutional protections of due process and equal protection found in our Constitution and Bill of Rights apply to every person, regardless of immigration status.
     
  14. EncinitasEd

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    "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." (emphasis added) This is a portion of the 14th Amendment. Says any person.
     
  15. fisheromen

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    So would all the Amendments in the Bill of Rights extend to "any person"? That does not make sense. Seems the entire document is qualified to legal citizens. I'm asking. Does the Amendment have to say "any person" to be understood that way? Could "any person" been intended to mean every man, woman, and child? Did it apply to black persons?

    On another front, abortion relegates the unborn to non-person status, under the 14th Amendment.
     
  16. Medicated fisherman

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    The Supreme Court found that the constitution under the 14,5 and 6th ammendment applies to all on US territories regardless if they are citizens or aliens. It does not apply to people not yet here. Once here they are entitled to due process. However we should detain them until there hearing. The good ones show up and get deported, the criminals are never seen again, until they show up in the criminal justice system.
     
  17. fisheromen

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    Thank You for that info. I also recall that the Dread Scott decision was instrumental in clarifying the 14th amendment. I may have that backwards.
     
  18. mcfish

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    I would call them shot dead.
     
  19. salt water guy

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    He seemed kinda “low-energy” last night and wasn’t snorting and sniffing as he did in the first two debates. Maybe he decided to skip the Bolivian marching powder this time… Good thing – didn’t he suggest pre-debate drug tests for candidates?
     
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  20. Medicated fisherman

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    Maybe Obama was dry and couldn't hook him up. Oh wait a minute Obama was a crack man. That's right Bush was the coke fan and Obama was the Crack smoker. However I think they preferred the Peruvian pearl over that Bolivian garbage.
     
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